TIGSource - December 2012 (81 posts)
#33 December 02, 2012 06:06 AM
100 procedurally-generated immigrants and their passports:
These are based on 7 passport styles, 8 original male faces, 8 original female faces, and random first/last names harvested from wikipedia. I’ll eventually have 32 original male and female faces each to reduce some of the repetition visible here.
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#34 makerimages (December 02, 2012 06:50 AM)
So you could end up with idunno…Michael Jackson standing behind the desk???
#35 December 02, 2012 07:29 AM
Quote from: makerimages on December 02, 2012, 06:50:20 AM So you could end up with idunno…Michael Jackson standing behind the desk???
Heh, I only mined names from the pages specifically about names. But I just checked and “Jackson, Michael” is a possible combination from what I’ve got so I guess the answer is: sorta :)
Might be interesting to have known names with matching portraits though. Either as a story point or just an interesting detail.
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#36 makerimages (December 02, 2012 08:07 AM)
Great, who else will be forced to become a possible immigrant? Clarkson Jeremy?? Hamond Richard?? Stig The??? Bieber Justin :huh?:#37 Belimoth (December 02, 2012 08:08 AM)
Impressive stuff here.#38 Eigen (December 02, 2012 01:00 PM)
:my word!:That is downright impressive! I usually don’t use the word ’love’ in everyday conversations but I just love your work. :hand clap:
I really like the variety. I think I spotted a bearded Steve Jobs in there.Just for funsies:
#39 Panurge (December 02, 2012 01:56 PM)
This is going from strength to strength at speed. Very exciting.By the way, the third from the top left is clearly Willem Dafoe ‘in character’. He could method act all he liked but he wouldn’t slip past me.
#40 December 03, 2012 07:35 AM
Thanks for the encouragement everyone!
Quote from: Eigen on December 02, 2012, 01:00:04 PM Just for funsies:
Haha. “If in doubt, keep em out.” Indeed.
Played around with some basic animations for walking up to/away from the booth. It’s just 2D fakery so I have to black the character out during the movement. Gonna try to explain that with some lights-off/lights-on effect.
The colors went pretty shit with my [screencap -> .mov -> frames -> .gif] capturing technique. Next time I’ll write frames directly from the game.
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#41 makerimages (December 03, 2012 10:15 AM)
Do want! When new release?? And- I saw a Oliver Campbell there !!!#42 Sergi (December 03, 2012 12:38 PM)
Whoa! That’s pretty cool!
Have you tried some kind of fade-in from black, so that it looks like they stepped from the shadows? Or would that be impossible given the limited palette? Anyway, the distortion effect looks convincing, good job! :)
#43 December 04, 2012 08:42 AM
Quote from: Sergi Lazaro on December 03, 2012, 12:38:10 PM Have you tried some kind of fade-in from black, so that it looks like they stepped from the shadows? Or would that be impossible given the limited palette? Anyway, the distortion effect looks convincing, good job! :)
Thanks!
I’m not using a palette except as an artistic limitation so there’s no technical reason not to have them fade in gradually. I tried it out though and it didn’t feel quite right. I think because it is a limited palette, a fade through so many shades looks out of place.
Today I got a better screencap system working and tried a shutter reveal:
*SHICK* * SHICK*
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#44 Malky (December 04, 2012 08:48 AM)
Ah that’s a great way to make that effect work.#45 Belimoth (December 04, 2012 05:29 PM)
The vertical movement makes it look like they are entering and leaving on a staircase or something. The turning looks good though.#46 Lynx (December 04, 2012 05:49 PM)
Hmm, honestly, I liked the pseudo-fade in and out transition you had, having the shutters go up and down for each person seems a bit odd– that’s more physical effort than any bureaucrat should want to go through. Whereas with the fade-in, it seems like they only take on life (to you) when they are right in front of you, demanding your attention.
#47 December 05, 2012 01:15 AM
Quote from: Belimoth on December 04, 2012, 05:29:59 PM The vertical movement makes it look like they are entering and leaving on a staircase or something. The turning looks good though.
Unlike nice places where the inspector sits at your height, in Artstotzka inspectors sit high above hopeful immigrants in order to maintain a downward gaze. IOW there’s a small step up to reach the booth.
Quote from: Lynx on December 04, 2012, 05:49:47 PM Hmm, honestly, I liked the pseudo-fade in and out transition you had, having the shutters go up and down for each person seems a bit odd– that’s more physical effort than any bureaucrat should want to go through. Whereas with the fade-in, it seems like they only take on life (to you) when they are right in front of you, demanding your attention.
Here’s both:
I like the hostility of the shutters. It seems a bit much here but there’ll be some time between immigrants so the shutters won’t be going up and down constantly. If the player has control of the shutters they could choose to make people wait or cut them off early. Might be fun. The simplicity of the fade also feels good though. Not sure which one I like better right now.
Quote from: makerimages on December 03, 2012, 10:15:05 AM Do want! When new release?? And- I saw a Oliver Campbell there !!!
Sorry, I completely missed this post. I’m probably gonna work on the document generation and discrepancy highlighting next. Not sure when those elements will come together into something playable that I can upload. Hopefully not more than a few days.
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#48 DustyDrake (December 05, 2012 02:23 AM)
How would it look if they faded in after the shutter opened?
(reasoning behind this being that they walk up to the shutter after it’s open)If the shutter stays, could you possibly try to make it so that people seem annoyed or frustrated when you shut the shutter on them?
Maybe even bang on the shutter some?Also
Quote from: Panurge on November 24, 2012, 08:10:33 AM -The passport does not have a recognised front cover (unless it’s just very worn like mine…).
-The ISS field is invalid (Lorndal instead of Lorndaz).
-The applicant says he wishes to work but is not in possession of a valid work visa.
-The applicant says he wishes to remain forever yet his permit is only for 14 days.My recommendation is that the applicant be taken immediately to the Bureau for Intercultural Relations where his application can be formally revoked by firing squad.
These look mostly right and all but I think I see two other things wrong:
-His passport expired three years ago
-He’s supposedly only about 6 months old according to the DoB#49 Belimoth (December 05, 2012 02:45 AM)
You could have the shutters slam shut when someone tries to make a run for it, might add a little to the feeling of danger.
#50 December 05, 2012 03:07 AM
Quote from: DustyDrake on December 05, 2012, 02:23:04 AM How would it look if they faded in after the shutter opened?
(reasoning behind this being that they walk up to the shutter after it’s open)
Well the shutter is a means to explain the shadowing. Doesn’t help with that if they fade in separately.
Quote from: DustyDrake on December 05, 2012, 02:23:04 AM If the shutter stays, could you possibly try to make it so that people seem annoyed or frustrated when you shut the shutter on them?
Maybe even bang on the shutter some?
That’s an awesome idea and a great reason to keep them. I can add a hand banging against the shutter if you take too long to open it or close it without giving them their documents back.
Quote from: DustyDrake on December 05, 2012, 02:23:04 AM Also…These look mostly right and all but I think I see two other things wrong:
-His passport expired three years ago
-He’s supposedly only about 6 months old according to the DoB
The date format is ‘year.month.day’. I’ll have to make that somehow more clear in the game.
Quote from: Belimoth on December 05, 2012, 02:45:46 AM You could have the shutters slam shut when someone tries to make a run for it, might add a little to the feeling of danger.
Heh. Another good idea. I was also thinking it’d be cool to have someone pull a gun on you in the booth if you deny their entry. Closing the shutters quickly would be a way to save yourself.
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#51 laserfire (December 05, 2012 06:58 AM)
Here’s both:
The one on the left makes more sense but the shutters definitely look cooler and give you a nice visual break between each person.
#52 DustyDrake (December 05, 2012 11:23 AM)
Quote from: dukope on December 05, 2012, 03:07:44 AM The date format is ‘year.month.day’. I’ll have to make that somehow more clear in the game.
Is there a reason for that?
Why not just make it a more sensible month.day.year or day.month.year?#53 Sergi (December 05, 2012 11:30 AM)
Quote from: DustyDrake on December 05, 2012, 11:23:39 AM Quote from: dukope on December 05, 2012, 03:07:44 AM The date format is ‘year.month.day’. I’ll have to make that somehow more clear in the game.
Is there a reason for that?
Why not just make it a more sensible month.day.year or day.month.year?Sensible according to whom? :wink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601#Calendar_dates#54 DustyDrake (December 05, 2012 12:29 PM)
Quote from: Sergi Lazaro on December 05, 2012, 11:30:35 AM Quote from: DustyDrake on December 05, 2012, 11:23:39 AM Quote from: dukope on December 05, 2012, 03:07:44 AM The date format is ‘year.month.day’. I’ll have to make that somehow more clear in the game.
Is there a reason for that?
Why not just make it a more sensible month.day.year or day.month.year?Sensible according to whom? :wink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601#Calendar_dates
According to that first page?
Most of the world.#55 Sergi (December 05, 2012 12:37 PM)
It’s a pretty irrelevant thing, but anyway. My point is that the standard (the one used there) is not officially used anywhere, and there are two big ones used (the ones you mentioned), and which one to use is a matter of opinion. I for one like the standard because it makes more sense in a way, but it’s not really relevant. As long as it’s clear in the game.#56 DustyDrake (December 05, 2012 12:45 PM)
Quote from: Sergi Lazaro on December 05, 2012, 12:37:43 PM It’s a pretty irrelevant thing, but anyway. My point is that the standard (the one used there) is not officially used anywhere, and there are two big ones used (the ones you mentioned), and which one to use is a matter of opinion. I for one like the standard because it makes more sense in a way, but it’s not really relevant. As long as it’s clear in the game.
I perfer the month/day/year set up, having lived in the US for all of my life, but I did hear an argument for day/month/year which was that they’re ordered how fast they change, which apparently makes it easier to adjust to month changes or something.
Also, that ISO 8601 link also mentions that the year for a year/month/day format is 4 digits, not 2.#57 Sergi (December 05, 2012 01:03 PM)
Quote from: DustyDrake on December 05, 2012, 12:45:47 PM I perfer the month/day/year set up, having lived in the US for all of my life, but I did hear an argument for day/month/year which was that they’re ordered how fast they change, which apparently makes it easier to adjust to month changes or something.
Also, that ISO 8601 link also mentions that the year for a year/month/day format is 4 digits, not 2.Yeah, we use DMY, I think it makes sense in spoken form because you say the most relevant info first, the one that changes the most. MDY is weird to me, but in the US there’s a lot of weird units and stuff :wink:
I like YMD in written form, because it disambiguates between DMY and MDY when not specified which is day and which is month (when the day is 12 or less); and YDM is non-existant, so YMD is the only one that starts with the year, which, if 4 digits, makes it clear. Also, YMD sorts well in filenames and stuff. Of course having the year as 2 digits instead of 4 makes it ambiguous again in some cases.
#58 Lynx (December 05, 2012 02:59 PM)
Suggestion for the fading in bit, have them be reduced a bit in scale, then grow as they fade, representing their ‘coming up to the light’.I like the idea of turning the shutters into a defensive mechanism though!
#59 December 05, 2012 09:54 PM
Quote from: DustyDrake on December 05, 2012, 11:23:39 AM Is there a reason for that?
Why not just make it a more sensible month.day.year or day.month.year?
I wanted the dates to feel as if they’re from an alternate timeline (just 2-digits), and foreign (YY.MM.DD). I’m American and prefer MM.DD.YYYY but I live in Japan where we use YY.MM.DD with a 2-digit emperor year. From the choices I figured YY.MM.DD would have the least chance of being confused for either DD.MM.YY or MM.DD.YY and so would work equally well for EU and US people. Got that one wrong. Mostly because:
Quote from: DustyDrake on December 05, 2012, 12:45:47 PM Also, that ISO 8601 link also mentions that the year for a year/month/day format is 4 digits, not 2.
Quote from: Sergi Lazaro on December 05, 2012, 01:03:12 PM …Of course having the year as 2 digits instead of 4 makes it ambiguous again in some cases.
You’re both right and I’d guess this is the main problem. In the current build I intentionally chose a date (62.11.23) that could only be interpreted in one way, but dates are an important element of the gameplay and I don’t think it’s worth the confusion. I’m gonna try to fit the full 4-digit year in there and possibly choose the format based on locale so you’d get either DD.MM.YYYY, MM.DD.YYYY, or YYYY.MM.DD depending on your location.
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#60 Games Inquirer (December 06, 2012 01:25 AM)
Love the shutters.#61 Sergi (December 06, 2012 02:21 AM)
Quote from: dukope on December 05, 2012, 09:54:39 PM I’m gonna try to fit the full 4-digit year in there and possibly choose the format based on locale so you’d get either DD.MM.YYYY, MM.DD.YYYY, or YYYY.MM.DD depending on your location.
If you get the 4-digit year there, then probably YMD would be the less confusing one, wouldn’t it? I mean, even in places where you have the year in the end, if you see it in the start, you assume it’s YMD right?
#62 December 08, 2012 07:32 AM
Quote from: Disasterpeace on December 06, 2012, 02:36:07 AM This is a wonderful idea. Just playing with the early build I get a good sense of how this will develop. Really looking to playing this down the line! :gomez:
Thanks!
Discrepancy Detected
There’s a small problem with your documentation Ms. Jensen. If that is your real name. Which it isn’t.
I don’t want to strip search you ma’am but it’s the only way to be sure about this typo on your entry permit.
Inspect Mode
Clicking the bottom-right button puts you in “inspect” mode. Highlight any two pieces of information and if there’s a discrepancy you’ll get more options. I like the setup here because every kind of error can be pointed out using this simple interface. For example, if the immigrant is missing an entry permit you can:
- Highlight the empty counter where there should be an entry permit
- Highlight the rulebook line that states “All travelers must have a valid entry permit”
Those two facts signify a discrepancy and you’ll be able to ask them wtf they’re thinking trying to pull this nonsense when you’re on duty this is serious business c’mon be serious.
Forgeries
Along with invalid data, documents themselves can be forged and I spent some time working on a system for this. Initially I thought to vary the document layouts slightly if they’re forged. Since the rulebook contains example photos of how certain documents should look, the player would have to visually compare them to detect forgeries. I couldn’t really figure out what kinds of layout changes made sense though. If someone goes through the trouble to forge a document, they’re gonna get the basic layout right. And at that point I can either make the layout errors very subtle or figure something else out.
Something Else That Was Figured Out (Seals)
Looking to the real world, official documents are often validated with seals, watermarks, holograms, emblems, and other security devices. Copying the structure and layout is easy but getting the right seal is much harder. So all official documents in Papers, Please will have an accompanying seal. Accepted seals are listed in the rulebook:
And must appear on official documents:
There’s some nice potential for an arms race here. As the game progresses, more and more complicated seals will be introduced as the criminals catch up. Gotta stay one step ahead. The potential is also there for special infrared seals that must be viewed under a special light in order to verify them.
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#63 makerimages (December 08, 2012 07:44 AM)
need new build!#64 FinalSin (December 08, 2012 08:00 AM)
This looks so great, the concept is brilliant but the art is what really sold me. Good luck with it!#65 Zaratustra (December 08, 2012 08:06 AM)
Suggestions of things that could happen (dunno if any of these have been made)
- Paper watermarks (forged documents have a slightly different one)
- Signatures
- Different name transliterations (Chekov / Tzechov in two different documents)
- Typing mistakes by the actual authority
- Exit ticket (commonly required)
- Reccomendation letters
#66 spolvid (December 08, 2012 06:14 PM)
I don’t know if this has been addressed already, but what’s to stop someone from just pressing on every single combination of information until they find something?#67 DustyDrake (December 08, 2012 06:30 PM)
A quota or time limit perhaps?#68 gimymblert (December 08, 2012 06:39 PM)
this game is brillant!
#69 December 08, 2012 07:35 PM
@makerimages: Coupla days still.
@FinalSin & Gimmy TILBERT: Super thanks!
Quote from: Zaratustra on December 08, 2012, 08:06:47 AM Suggestions of things that could happen (dunno if any of these have been made)…
These are all good ideas.
Quote from: spolvid on December 08, 2012, 06:14:08 PM I don’t know if this has been addressed already, but what’s to stop someone from just pressing on every single combination of information until they find something?
Nothing except the inefficiency of it. On those traveling light (traveler with passport, entry permit, responses, appearance, and your rulebook) there are about 35 unique pieces of information. That’s almost 600 unique fact pairs so it’s gonna take some time to even click them all. And since not all facts are visible at once you’d need to periodically rearrange the documents.
Much easier to just scan the documents visually and highlight where you think there’s an error.
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#70 Lynx (December 10, 2012 05:31 PM)
Suggestion: “in-game” time passes only when you click on two fields to compare them. In other words, you can walk off to get a cup of coffee in RL if you want. Your score is based on how much in-game time passed for each examination, as well as how many correct and incorrect guesses you made on legitimacy.#71 laxwolf (December 10, 2012 06:23 PM)
Possibly add a combo system for processing (subtle, not like “MEGA COMBO 46x MAXIMIZER!”) You could possibly get pay raises as your rank goes up which is directly affected by your ability to get high combos. You can use that currency to purchase better equipment or more ways to question people. You could even give the NPCs the potential to lie when you question them, and your ability to decide if they are lying or truly unaware about the mistake on their passport will come down to your real skill and the skills you upgraded within the game.And obviously, mistakes made while processing passengers will kill your combo and make it harder to process sneakier passengers in the future.
May I be so daring to say you should include an online leaderboard? You can gain (and loose) ranks depending on how quickly and thoroughly you can verify, interrogate, and process passengers. This could act as an incentive to boost performance, but may not be worth the time to implement.
But look at me, making a simple, intriguing game into a complicated mess. :corny laugh:
#72 DustyDrake (December 10, 2012 06:27 PM)
The leaderboard could be the “employee of the month” type thing.
Heh.
#73 December 10, 2012 10:29 PM
Quote from: Lynx on December 10, 2012, 05:31:14 PM Your score is based on how much in-game time passed for each examination, as well as how many correct and incorrect guesses you made on legitimacy…
Quote from: laxwolf on December 10, 2012, 06:23:02 PM Possibly add a combo system for processing (subtle, not like “MEGA COMBO 46x MAXIMIZER!”)…
TBH, I hadn’t even considered a score system. There are some cool ideas here, but I personally don’t pay attention to scores in games. I could see it making sense with a leaderboard though. For that case a separate score mode would probably work best so the story progression doesn’t get in the way. Similarly, Helsing’s Fire has a “Bounty Mode” that lets you play online puzzles outside the story arc that works pretty well.
I like the upgrades suggestion. I have some vague ideas about upgrades but I’m waiting to have the basic daily gameplay working before trying to figure out what works best. New equipment and interrogation questions sound promising.
Time
For in-game time, I prefer it to be realtime. You’ll be able to pause (blacking out the screen?) to take a break. But all the little rigamarole of clicking things and arranging documents is part of the job and should be on the clock. The faster you can do that stuff, the better you’ll be. And just like real life, you’ll have to decide if it’s worth flipping through the rulebook looking for a specific rule, or sending a slow telex query to check a name. This keeps things simple too; no need for a special hud or an explanation of what does or doesn’t cost time. » TIME COSTS TIME «
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#74 Panurge (December 10, 2012 11:16 PM)
I also think this has a lot of scope for moral dimensions not often seen in games. For example, a lot of the illegal immigrants you are catching might simply be poor labourers from a war-torn region hoping to blag their way in and send money back to their families, yet the punishments for these will be just as severe as for other, more criminal, immigrants. Imagine someone with a crudely faked passport who breaks down under questioning and admits that she just wants to support her children. You might be tempted to let her through… Or how about political refugees who will be shot if you send them back? Then again, if you go easy on everyone you will likely end up in trouble yourself or let someone through who turns out to be a terrorist bomber.I loved how you handled this sort of thing in ‘The Republia Times’ - I really felt the moral dilemma there - and wonder if you are planning something similar for this…
#75 December 12, 2012 09:07 AM
Quote from: Panurge on December 10, 2012, 11:16:03 PM I loved how you handled this sort of thing in ‘The Republia Times’ - I really felt the moral dilemma there - and wonder if you are planning something similar for this…
Thank you and yes :D One of my motivations for making this game is to exploit the player’s morals and give them tough choices. I think there’s more potential for hard choices here than in Republia Times. Actually the examples you mention are spot on.
A Few Faces
One of the nice things about doing both programming and art is that I can take a break from one and focus on the other. Perfect for when I get burnt out on something. I spent a few hours yesterday just drawing faces. Two new sheets:
Click the picture to see a time-lapse of the drawing. Not that exciting really.
You can see I’m running out of ideas for the clothes and they’re getting a little crazy.
Lemme Just Stamp This
So you’ve checked someone’s documents and it’s all in order. How do you approve their entry and send them through? In the real world the inspector puts a sticker on your passport and stamps it with some time information. My original plan was to put some stamps on the counter (red = deny, green = approve):
To stamp a document, drag it from the counter and over to the desk. Same drag/drop interface as the papers:
It’s easy to position, but how do you actually stamp it? With drag/drop, you grab the object on mouse-down and drop it on mouse-up. If you don’t drag, it’s easy to detect a mouse-up with no movement and apply a click. So that’d work here too. Drag the stamp into place, drop it, then click it to apply. Unfortunately this feels lame. Applying the stamp on mouse release just doesn’t have the satisfaction. What you want is a nice solid THUNK when pressing the mouse down, not when you let go.
So I switched gears and am now experimenting with a stamp “bar” that pulls out over the desk. In this case, the stamps are immovable and you have to arrange the documents beneath them before stamping. Feels much better:
Once you stamp the passport and hand all the documentation back they’ll grab everything and walk out to the right.
Haxe/NME
I’ve spent enough time with Haxe now to have both good and bad impressions.
Bad
- A ‘meta-language’ with no home
Haxe is translated into other languages (flash, js, c++, etc) and has no compiler. It supports a lot of target languages and although it doesn’t take a lowest-common-denominator approach, it does sacrifice some features. The big one for me is proper class member scoping. There’s no concept of true “private” members like you’d see in C# or C++. This makes it hard to build robust inheritance classes without stepping all over your base class’s members. I generally keep my class hierarchies as shallow as possible so this is less of a problem but it has come up a few times. The usual way around it is to use adapter or helper classes instead of inheritance. - NME has some missing features
Although the NME build process is fantastic, the C++/js/flash APIs all have little differences that need to be worked around. So far the biggest missing pieces are in the BitmapData class. For now I can handle the necessary tweaks.
Good
- Modern syntax and features
Coming from C, C++ (and even C#), Haxe is refreshingly modern. The type system is good and the reflection API is simple to use and powerful. - First-class functions
Having first-class functions that can be passed around as variables is great and can simplify a lot of normally difficult tasks. Love it. As an example, using reflection and first-class functions I was able to create a simple state machine class that handles all the animation and state changes for game objects. Not possible in C++ without pains. - Succinct
I think a good way to gauge the value of a language is to look at how much code is required to perform common tasks. The less code required, the better the language. Haxe scores well here.
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#76 Lynx (December 12, 2012 03:45 PM)
You’re right, that looks like it’d be a lot more satisfying. Ka-THUMP!I’d have thought the same as your first thing, moving the stamp over, but you’re going the extra mile here. :)
#77 December 13, 2012 09:19 AM
Stampage
Today was productive. Got the stamping system and in-booth flow working.
Pretty tired at the moment but I’m hoping to upload a build late tomorrow.
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#78 flex$ (December 13, 2012 04:22 PM)
Quote from: dukope on December 13, 2012, 09:19:11 AM Stampage
Today was productive. Got the stamping system and in-booth flow working.
Pretty tired at the moment but I’m hoping to upload a build late tomorrow.
:kiss:
#79 makerimages (December 14, 2012 06:14 AM)
got the new build up??
#80 December 14, 2012 11:07 AM
Quote from: makerimages on December 14, 2012, 06:14:39 AM got the new build up??
Still tracking down some sneaky logic errors. It’s past 4AM here so I’ll postpone things until tomorrow.
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#81 Quarry (December 14, 2012 12:11 PM)
Is there a risk factor or an endgame?
#82 December 15, 2012 03:58 AM
Quote from: Quarry on December 14, 2012, 12:11:20 PM Is there a risk factor or an endgame?
There’ll be a story arc with several endings.
New Build!
Still early but the inspection procedure is largely in place. Instructions are on the page. Enjoy!
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#83 Quarry (December 15, 2012 04:08 AM)
I can’t see a denied stamp, and any way to know if I did right or wrong?
#84 December 15, 2012 04:11 AM
Quote from: Quarry on December 15, 2012, 04:08:40 AM I can’t see a denied stamp
You have to highlight two pieces of mismatched information from inspect mode to enable the denial stamp.
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#85 Quarry (December 15, 2012 04:16 AM)
I can still use it though, and how do I send someone without a pass and entry. Also any way to know if I did right or wrong? On top of that right before I saw documents of a guy I slammed it shut and it’s stuck, can’t get anyone new or something#86 makerimages (December 15, 2012 04:27 AM)
HIGLight rulebook rule and table top if a document is missing.
#87 December 15, 2012 04:31 AM
Quote from: Quarry on December 15, 2012, 04:16:02 AM I can still use it though, and how do I send someone without a pass and entry. Also any way to know if I did right or wrong? On top of that right before I saw documents of a guy I slammed it shut and it’s stuck, can’t get anyone new or something
Just fixed the invisible stamp still working. Thanks for the info. As makerimages says, if they’re missing all documents, highlight the counter and the rule and they’ll walk out.
Reload the page if it’s stuck for now. I’ll look into a proper fix.
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#88 Eigen (December 15, 2012 04:41 AM)
Why do I have to click on the names in the passport and permit to highlight the disperancy if I can clearly see the difference in names and could stamp “Denied” right away?I’m really enjoying it so far. :hand clap:
Some sounds would help, though.
#89 December 15, 2012 04:47 AM
Quote from: Eigen on December 15, 2012, 04:41:44 AM Why do I have to click on the names in the passport and permit to highlight the disperancy if I can clearly see the difference in names and could stamp “Denied” right away?
Just some artificial gating since there’s no other reason to highlight yet. In the end, the denied stamp will always be available and highlighting errors will allow further actions like in one of the animated gifs I posted.
I agree it definitely needs some audio. I probably won’t get to that until some of the other mechanics are worked out though.
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#90 Quarry (December 15, 2012 05:29 AM)
btw could you please switch all the dates to d/m/y or provide us the option to pick it, it really confused me at the first with “What the hell, are we in the future with 100 day calendar?!”#91 goshki (December 15, 2012 08:13 AM)
Wow, this game is amazingly addictive! I’ve denied, like, 50 people and it felt so satisfying to spot discrepancies, given that some of them were not so obvious.Three things, though:
- I haven’t got anyone who would qualify to pass, is this on purpose? Currently if someone should be denied and I grant access, nothing happens and I know that I have to look better. Maybe such person should pass and the player should get some negative points with explanation what was wrong with the papers?
- wouldn’t it be convenient if the documents got auto-denied if I find a discrepancy?
- what’s the purpose of the leverage that closes the window?
Again, this game is so addictive in a quirky kind of way. This feeling of contentment while denying entrance is quite unsettling and I guess it says something about human nature.
BTW, I see you use Haxe, cool! :D Is this HaxeFlixel or your own code? And do you plan to put it up on different platforms also (iOS, Android)?
Quote from: Quarry on December 15, 2012, 05:29:59 AM btw could you please switch all the dates to d/m/y or provide us the option to pick it, it really confused me at the first with “What the hell, are we in the future with 100 day calendar?!”
Heh, I didn’t have this problem. Must be a matter of country date standards.
#92 December 15, 2012 09:10 AM
Quote from: goshki on December 15, 2012, 08:13:58 AM Wow, this game is amazingly addictive! I’ve denied, like, 50 people and it felt so satisfying to spot discrepancies, given that some of them were not so obvious.
Thank you goshki, this is very encouraging to hear!
- I haven’t got anyone who would qualify to pass, is this on purpose? Currently if someone should be denied and I grant access, nothing happens and I know that I have to look better. Maybe such person should pass and the player should get some negative points with explanation what was wrong with the papers?
Yeah there’s only illegitimate travelers at the moment. This build is to nail down the procedural mechanics of inspecting documents. Later builds will have a mix and there will be consequences to letting the wrong people through. The plan is to break the game up into days and somehow report your stats after each day. Maybe there I could have some kind of recap system so you can see exactly what you did wrong.
- wouldn’t it be convenient if the documents got auto-denied if I find a discrepancy?
- what’s the purpose of the leverage that closes the window?
Stamping is the most fun for me :). The gameplay is really about procedure and rigamarole so I wouldn’t want to skip through elements like this. The shutters don’t have any function yet. I talked about it a little upthread. It will come into play as a defensive mechanism.
This feeling of contentment while denying entrance is quite unsettling and I guess it says something about human nature.
Hehe. I also get serious satisfaction from denying people. I think the key is that they’re trying to lie their way into MY country, GTFO :outraged:. I’m going to try to make the applicants a little more sympathetic in the future so the feelings aren’t as clear.
BTW, I see you use Haxe, cool! :D Is this HaxeFlixel or your own code? And do you plan to put it up on different platforms also (iOS, Android)?
Just basic Haxe/NME, no Flixel. This is my first Haxe project and I chose it so that I could target other platforms easily. The goal is to do native PC/Max/Linux versions first. The game is a little tight for phones but might work well on tablets.
Quote from: Quarry on December 15, 2012, 05:29:59 AM btw could you please switch all the dates to d/m/y or provide us the option to pick it, it really confused me at the first with “What the hell, are we in the future with 100 day calendar?!”
Eventually I’ll have it select the date format based on your locale.
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#93 goshki (December 15, 2012 09:57 AM)
Ha! I’ve just found out that you also did 6 Degrees of Freedom. Oh man, I loved this game. :beer!:
#94 December 15, 2012 11:37 PM
Quote from: goshki on December 15, 2012, 09:57:29 AM Ha! I’ve just found out that you also did 6 Degrees of Freedom. Oh man, I loved this game. :beer!:
Thank you but I hope you mean 6 Degrees of Sabotage :grin:
I also really enjoy your Pole Vaultage. Great visuals and control(s). I got the hang of it after a while and am able to clear the fence pretty regularly.
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#95 goshki (December 15, 2012 11:44 PM)
Sorry, 6 Degrees of Sabotage, of course! :facepalm:Glad you like Pole Vaultage! although it’s far from what I planned it to be (I hope to expand it someday). :beer!:
#96 Pixelulsar (December 16, 2012 08:56 AM)
Really cool game, it was fun and addictive from what I played. Using the huge stamp felt so cool, and I liked how you could stamp the passport as many times as you want just for fun.
#97 December 17, 2012 07:47 AM
Quote from: Pixelulsar on December 16, 2012, 08:56:35 AM Really cool game, it was fun and addictive from what I played. Using the huge stamp felt so cool, and I liked how you could stamp the passport as many times as you want just for fun.
Thanks. There’s not enough stamping in games.
Speech Bub
A simple speech bubble for conversing with the victim applicant.
At the moment I’m working on the stuff that happens after you highlight a discrepancy. Each type of error will lead to a short dialog interaction and in some cases the option to search their body or send a telex.
It may also prompt the applicant to submit more documents. For instance, if they don’t have an entry permit and you ask them about it, they could say something like “Whoops, here it is.” and put it on the counter.
For this dialog system I’m going to try to categorize responses into different “personalities” which would enable applicants to be dickheads, sympathetic, indifferent etc.
Tracking Performance
One issue I haven’t gotten to yet is how to show player performance. If the game is broken into days, there should be some stat thing that shows at the end of each day. I was recently thinking it might be cool to have this be a sort of flash-forward “Where are they now” summary for each traveler you dealt with.
As an example, if you let a smuggler through in error, it would give a small report like “[PICTURE] Anton Sarvoy: Arrested for smuggling. Detained and executed”. Or hopefully it’s something more positive. If you had mercy on someone with poor documentation: “[PICTURE] Alice Mitchells: Reunited with son. Gainfully employed.” So these blurbs are from the far future, not just the next day. Might be kinda weird in that sense.
On the other hand
I think some of an immigration inspector’s anxiety comes from not knowing what happens to the immigrants they process every day. In Papers Please there will be immediately visible consequences in some cases (terrorist bomber). But in other cases the person will just pass through and you won’t know what happened until the stats screen at the end of each day. Not sure if I want to try to capture that sense of not-knowing and show only minimal stats or treat it more like a game with detailed information on each immigrant.
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#98 Panurge (December 17, 2012 09:38 AM)
Personally, I think those sort of omniscient reports about the immigrants’ futures would ‘break the spell’ and take away the immediacy which is one of the current charms of the game.Perhaps you could find some middle ground and have occasional repercussions from prior applications?
For example, you may receive a notice warning you that a particular immigrant you let through the previous day was later arrested trying to buy arms on the black market and discrepancies were noted in his documentation. Maybe after so many written warnings you would face a disciplinary hearing.
On the other hand, you might receive a thank-you letter and a jar of pickled turnip from the poor grandmother you let through to join her family.
Love the new build btw - it’s worryingly satisfying…
#99 December 17, 2012 10:32 PM
Quote from: Panurge on December 17, 2012, 09:38:55 AM …
For example, you may receive a notice warning you that a particular immigrant you let through the previous day was later arrested trying to buy arms on the black market and discrepancies were noted in his documentation. Maybe after so many written warnings you would face a disciplinary hearing.
On the other hand, you might receive a thank-you letter and a jar of pickled turnip from the poor grandmother you let through to join her family.
This is perfect; way better than a stats screen. Definitely gonna do this. Thank you for the great idea, Panurge!
Letters
Each morning there’ll be a stack of letters on the counter. Before calling the first applicant of the day you’ll be able to look through them using the same drag+drop interface. They might be updates from the Ministry, reprimands, thank you notes from approved applicants, hate mail from denied applicants or….
Bribes
I’m keen to have some form of bribery in the game. Maybe your “score” will actually be your money. Some less-than-honest applicants can offer you money up front, or the promise to mail cash to you later in exchange for a quick approval. This’ll give you some non-altrusitic incentive to let the bad ones through.
Progression
The money system could also nicely tie in to the overall progression. Let’s say you receive a daily salary from the Ministry based on performance. Each day you lose a little money due to living expenses. Your current income represents your wealth bracket, of which there are several. The story and game progresses as you move up the brackets.
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#100 Eigen (December 17, 2012 10:59 PM)
Quote from: dukope on December 17, 2012, 10:32:00 PM Bribes
I’m keen to have some form of bribery in the game. Maybe your “score” will actually be your money. Some less-than-honest applicants can offer you money up front, or the promise to mail cash to you later in exchange for a quick approval. This’ll give you some non-altrusitic incentive to let the bad ones through.I’m not sure. Since there’s no use for the money in-game I wouldn’t accept any bribes because basically that works like a “skip” button (or a cheat). Now, if the story in the beginning of the game stated that I’m a poor immigration officer hoping to make enough money to buy .. I dunno .. something important (for either me or my family), then I had the incentive to consider it.
Another idea I had which might help with the whole progress updates thing is that you have several levels or ranks of immigration officials. You start out as the low-importance clerk and you mostly get honest people along with some nifty characters. If you do good and catch them, you get promoted and get to work on more complex cases. About 5 ranks should be enough, depending on how long you want the game to be. If there’s no save feature then it shouldn’t be very long anyway. The replayability with unique faces and random set of documents should be more than enough to make up for that.
#101 epcc (December 19, 2012 10:16 AM)
When doing bribes, you can implement sting operations to make accepting bribes more risky, but always add a subtle clue whether the immigrant is actually an undercover agent.
#102 December 29, 2012 05:13 AM
After a short holiday break, back on task.
Title screen:
Finally added the top screen with animated travelers:
This also has my solution for getting the docs on the table. I tried animating a hand dropping the papers but it looked worse than terrible. This way it’s over fast and hopefully doesn’t raise much thought.
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#103 Belimoth (December 29, 2012 05:55 AM)
Clean solution after clean solution, I am in awe of your game development talent :beer!:#104 DustyDrake (December 29, 2012 12:22 PM)
Apparently you can stamp things through your magic rule book.And a lady is missing her entry permit, but the game is telling me no correlation.
Hmph.
(Oh, her passport was expired too.)Also you can inspect the corners of pages and bookmarks? And it seems I can’t click the ISS field on the passport, even though it’s incorrect.
(Oh you have to click on the list of cities and the value of the field. okay.)#105 Quarry (December 29, 2012 12:51 PM)
I believe that further in the development you should add document forgery errors (different typefaces, wrong paper etc.)#106 Rusk (December 29, 2012 02:46 PM)
This is a really cool game, already quite addictive. :)How about marking discrepancies with a right click, that would get rid of the need for extra inspection mode.
Some thoughts on the rule book. The corner to flip pages could be bigger, as big as possible in my opinion. There is a ribbon on the top left, this seems to be a browser-like “go back” function. It feels a bit strange to have in a book. I think it would be nicer (and more like an actual bookmark) to always be able to quickly get to the contents.
#107 December 30, 2012 03:51 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
Quote from: DustyDrake on December 29, 2012, 12:22:41 PM And a lady is missing her entry permit, but the game is telling me no correlation. Hmph. (Oh, her passport was expired too.)
No correlation between which things? For a missing entry permit (for non-Arstotzkans only), you have to highlight the rule and the counter top. I’ll fix the other stuff you mentioned. In the next build you’ll be able to click the “Passport ISS field must be valid” to correlate with a wrong city.
Quote from: Quarry on December 29, 2012, 12:51:33 PM I believe that further in the development you should add document forgery errors (different typefaces, wrong paper etc.)
I experimented with this but decided these sorts of changes are too subtle. Instead, documents will have official seals that may be forged incorrectly.
Quote from: Rusk on December 29, 2012, 02:46:13 PM How about marking discrepancies with a right click, that would get rid of the need for extra inspection mode.
I can do the right-click shortcut for native builds, but not flash. Maybe I’ll have the space key toggle inspection mode to make it a little faster.
Some thoughts on the rule book. The corner to flip pages could be bigger, as big as possible in my opinion. There is a ribbon on the top left, this seems to be a browser-like “go back” function. It feels a bit strange to have in a book. I think it would be nicer (and more like an actual bookmark) to always be able to quickly get to the contents.
You shouldn’t have to flip pages too much but I agree the corner could be bigger. I made the bookmark more like a browser thinking it would be more convenient but I think you’re right. I usually just end up clicking it a bunch to get back to the TOC anyways. I’ll change it to just go to page one.
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#108 Dariush (December 30, 2012 11:27 AM)
Got a bug, no papers at all:
This game is awesome, BTW. :)
#109 DustyDrake (December 30, 2012 12:04 PM)
That’s actually not a bug.
Pull out the rule book and select the “must have a passport rule”#110 Trystin (December 30, 2012 08:34 PM)
Really original, never seen anything like it.
I look forward to seeing a bit more of this…#111 Taber (January 01, 2013 12:00 PM)
Loving the progress on this so far! Amazing that you can make a paper shuffling game so fun!#112 Lynx (January 03, 2013 03:13 PM)
That’s a lot of people in line. O_OThis looks like it is coming along really well!
#113 Quarry (January 03, 2013 03:16 PM)
Where did you get the idea for this project?