TIGSource - March 2013 (68 posts)
#239 March 03, 2013 04:54 AM
Data Scripting
A few shots of the game’s data scripts. 99% of the time I use XML for text-based data but I’ve branched out a little bit for this game. The amount of text data here has lead me to 2 alternatives: A simple indentation-based format and CSV exported from Numbers (exel for Mac).
Days
This is the spreadsheet for all the per-day settings, traveler placement, news, rules, etc. Often you’ll see spreadsheets like this with design logic and in this case I’m able to use the exported CSV data directly in the game. Working in a spreadsheet makes it much easier to follow and edit the progression. If this were XML I’d be constantly scrolling up and down to edit different sections. This kind of thing would probably be even easier with a custom tool but I decided that wasn’t a good use of time for this project.
Travelers
Travelers are specified in a simple tab indention format, which is parsed into a node tree by the game. Syntax highlighting is my fav so I’ve also made a .language file for Sublime Text 2 to color each indented line. Using this simple format I can script each traveler with as much or as little specification as necessary. So in one case I may just give one guy a little bit of custom dialog when he’s rejected; Everything else would be filled in randomly by the game. In another case I can force every detail (face, name, dialog, nationality, errors, etc) to build story threads.
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#240 Panurge (March 03, 2013 05:09 AM)
Really interesting to see some of the nuts and bolts behind this. The story threads sound just perfect.#241 Franklin’s Ghost (March 04, 2013 04:18 AM)
Just found this Devlog and read through it all. Great concept and very unique idea, really enjoying it so far.Will be following.
#242 Roshirai (March 04, 2013 11:01 PM)
Quote from: dukope on March 03, 2013, 04:54:44 AM This is the spreadsheet for all the per-day settings, traveler placement, news, rules, etc.
Is your intent for each day in the final game to be completely deterministic? That is, every game day, from day 1 through 50 or whatever, is mostly scripted as to what story events will occur, and the game has something resembling an “end”? If so, any plans for something akin to an “Endless Mode” that is a long string of mostly random days with the “income generation/family upkeep” metagame attached so that you can keep playing until you get bored/get fired/get shot as a conspirator?Everything looks great so far, by the way: I’m looking forward to the finished product! I’ve already picked out
for you. :)
The eighties ain’t been kind to anyone…
#243 March 06, 2013 07:27 AM
Quote from: Roshirai on March 04, 2013, 11:01:23 PM Is your intent for each day in the final game to be completely deterministic? That is, every game day, from day 1 through 50 or whatever, is mostly scripted as to what story events will occur, and the game has something resembling an “end”? If so, any plans for something akin to an “Endless Mode” that is a long string of mostly random days with the “income generation/family upkeep” metagame attached so that you can keep playing until you get bored/get fired/get shot as a conspirator?
That’s basically exactly right. At the moment I’m planning on ~30 days in the final story mode. There will be small branches for some of the story threads, most of the immigrants will have some random properties, and taking care of your family is not guaranteed. Under certain conditions you can still lose but on the whole this mode will be deterministic.
The endless mode is something I’m considering. It depends on how much work it is to set up. Right now I’m feeling it’d be pretty easy so the chances are good I guess.
Everything looks great so far, by the way: I’m looking forward to the finished product! I’ve already picked out
for you. :)
Thanks! Great song.
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#244 Zaratustra (March 10, 2013 07:29 AM)
I got one work permit with “until” date of a month after the day, and the person was staying for 12 months. The game didn’t seem to have a problem with it.
Suggestions:* Add tabs to the guidebook (like http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/499/499,1109384428,5/stock-photo-planner-organizer-tabs-176244.jpg).
* At least in the first two or three days, the penalty for wrongly admitting or refusing an entry should tell you straight-up what you missed.
* Maybe instead of a sniper rifle, clicking on a person on the top area just calls the attention of the guards to that person. If they’re doing something stupid behind the border, they get taken away. If they’re over the border, they’re shot.
#245 March 12, 2013 06:59 AM
Quote from: Zaratustra on March 10, 2013, 07:29:40 AM I got one work permit with “until” date of a month after the day, and the person was staying for 12 months. The game didn’t seem to have a problem with it.
Sounds like a problem with a year wrap-around. I’ll take a look, thanks.
Suggestions:
* Add tabs to the guidebook (like http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/499/499,1109384428,5/stock-photo-planner-organizer-tabs-176244.jpg).
* At least in the first two or three days, the penalty for wrongly admitting or refusing an entry should tell you straight-up what you missed.
* Maybe instead of a sniper rifle, clicking on a person on the top area just calls the attention of the guards to that person. If they’re doing something stupid behind the border, they get taken away. If they’re over the border, they’re shot.
Great idea about the tabs. It’s too late for the beta build, but I can get that in the final. For now the game will always tell you exactly what you missed. Runners will only attempt to scale the wall if there are no guards on the left side. And I still feel the sniping is better as 1st person.
#246 March 12, 2013 07:17 AM
Your Name in the Game
dukope.com/usemyname
Ok, trying something stupid bold here. I’d like to collect real* names for the immigrants. I quickly threw together some PHP so if you have a chance, want to see your name in the game, and don’t mind using a working email, please try it out and let me know if you run into any problems.
Thanks.
* The game has a particular eastern-bloc setting so some names work better than others. Best thing is to easternblockenize it when submitting. That’ll save me the trouble of having to do the same.
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#247 Jobastion (March 12, 2013 08:04 PM)
I didn’t see this mentioned in the thread, but noticed a change between the old builds and the most recent: Only passports can be stamped in the 0.1.1 build, while all presented documents could be stamped in the prior builds.
I know I don’t need to stamp that invalid work permit or travel authorization withDeniedfrom top to bottom.
But it makes me feel like an efficient cog in the machine to stamp each and every document the lying invader has presented while trying to enter our glorious country.
… I mean, I think it adds flavor, and since you’re kicking them out anyway, it makes sense that you’d mark each form so they can’t be used again by some unscrupulous individual.
If it’s already back in, ignore me!#248 MegaScience (March 12, 2013 11:33 PM)
Actually, that might be required. I tried the game last week after watching a video on it, and this happened:
No passport to stamp, so the game was over. If it is intended the passport might not be there, we need some way of denying them.
#249 March 13, 2013 12:29 AM
Quote from: Jobastion on March 12, 2013, 08:04:24 PM I didn’t see this mentioned in the thread, but noticed a change between the old builds and the most recent: Only passports can be stamped in the 0.1.1 build, while all presented documents could be stamped in the prior builds.
Stamping everything was fun, but I felt just too much busywork (fine line, I know). I could make it optional (only required on the passport), but then it’s confusing and you’d end up stamping everything anyways. It’s hard to communicate that “you can do this optional thing here, but you don’t need to; whereas over here you need to do it.”
In the end you’ll be stamping so many passports, trust me that you’ll be glad you don’t need to stamp everything.
Quote from: MegaScience on March 12, 2013, 11:33:49 PM Actually, that might be required. I tried the game last week after watching a video on it, and this happened:
No passport to stamp, so the game was over. If it is intended the passport might not be there, we need some way of denying them.
If you correlate the missing document (highlight the “need passport” rule and the counter-top), you should get a visa slip:
..That’ll let you deny them and move on.
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#250 MegaScience (March 13, 2013 01:42 AM)
Hmm, went ingame to test. Thanks, I didn’t think to try something like that. :) Can’t wait to play the next version.By the way,
. I’ll be sure to tell the video maker about the update whenever it is ready.
#251 March 13, 2013 06:23 AM
New Build
Features:
- Play through the first 8 days.
- Sound effects, terrorists, smugglers, criminals, scripted events, and more.
- Night-time budget management basics are in but unbalanced.
This is likely the last (non-bugfix) release before final.
I haven’t tested the windows version much. If you have any issues, please post here.
There’s a bug with this build getting stuck on day 2. Temporary workaround is to clear 7 immigrants before the time runs out on day 2. I’m working on a proper fix now. Fixed in 0.5.5 along with an iMac crash.
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#252 MegaScience (March 13, 2013 10:29 AM)
Ha. I didn’t realize the stampers were switched and accidentally stamped denied on the first person. I tried to stamp over it, but that didn’t count. xD Will you put detailed instructions outside of the ingame documents once you hit final, with every minute detail which can mean life or death for us? :) I feel like I’m easily missing some way of correcting misstamping, although at the same time it feels like that is probably intended - to not be able to undo a stamp.
#253 March 13, 2013 05:57 PM
Quote from: MegaScience on March 13, 2013, 10:29:28 AM Ha. I didn’t realize the stampers were switched and accidentally stamped denied on the first person. I tried to stamp over it, but that didn’t count. xD Will you put detailed instructions outside of the ingame documents once you hit final, with every minute detail which can mean life or death for us? :) I feel like I’m easily missing some way of correcting misstamping, although at the same time it feels like that is probably intended - to not be able to undo a stamp.
Yeah you gotta be careful with the stamping. A denial stamp can’t be undone but an approval stamp can be overwritten with a denial stamp. Don’t stamp until you’re sure. I kind’ve expected the stamp switch to trip some people up.
I probably won’t have an external readme except for credits or whatnot. I’ll see if I can fit something referencing the stamp situation in the bulletin.
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#254 Jobastion (March 13, 2013 08:03 PM)
Played through twice in Windows, didn’t see any glaring issues. In non-glaring issues, it seems odd that the fellow on the 8th day didn’t appear to be detain-able. I couldn’t get any correlation other than “matching data” between the name on the back of the note and any part of his id or passport. Seems to match the “suspicious” tag quite well.
(I was able to pass the note to him and send him on and send him through without giving him the note.)#255 accolon (March 14, 2013 05:38 AM)
I really love this game and the direction it is going. Especially the new scripted parts are great.Two things I noticed:
- The first days ended quite abruptly without the crowd walking away while there was still the last person in the booth.
- The “Protocol Violations” reset each day, so I can afford a lot of mistakes. I know this would make the game harder, but it would also be more realistic if laxness was penalized harder.
EDIT:
I forgot about a third thing. On OS X, the alpha version used the full screen. The current beta is centered with a huge black area filling the rest of the screen. I liked the older way better.#256 MegaScience (March 14, 2013 05:43 AM)
I encountered three very, very minor problems in Beta 0.5.5:1: The article title on the right side did not fit, extending outside the newspaper:
2: Either the list is not vertically centered correctly or does not take so many entries into account, extending over the button:
3: After finishing the last available day, the main menu offers to you to play the next day (Day 9). I assume this is for when the game updates, allowing you to continue from your Beta save, but currently this will simply crash the game. Might be good for it to tell the player they must wait for a later version.
In relation to posts by other people, it seems like a difficulty setting might be in order. Daily violations stack, less forgiveness, etc. Maybe you match the name of the person on our current last day to them for a tiny, tiny dialog? Then you could add some distrust systems for later days where dialog is directly monitored instead of only in relation to documentation being misread.
Edit: Oh, one last thing. Would it be possible to have a toggle-able setting for the nudity in scans? It would make it easier for people to advertise your game through videos. :)
#257 March 14, 2013 07:44 AM
Thanks for the info everyone!
Quote from: Jobastion on March 13, 2013, 08:03:04 PM In non-glaring issues, it seems odd that the fellow on the 8th day didn’t appear to be detain-able. I couldn’t get any correlation other than “matching data” between the name on the back of the note and any part of his id or passport. Seems to match the “suspicious” tag quite well.
(I was able to pass the note to him and send him on and send him through without giving him the note.)
This guy is from The Order of the Ezic Star. You learn more about them and why they can’t be detained later. :well, hello there!:
Quote from: accolon on March 14, 2013, 05:38:36 AM I really love this game and the direction it is going. Especially the new scripted parts are great.
Two things I noticed:
- The first days ended quite abruptly without the crowd walking away while there was still the last person in the booth.
- The “Protocol Violations” reset each day, so I can afford a lot of mistakes. I know this would make the game harder, but it would also be more realistic if laxness was penalized harder.
Thanks! I’ll check the timing. I think you’re supposed to always see the crowd dispersing but maybe if the timing is just right the day will end before that. I had a feeling it was too lenient with the citations. This has an effect on the night-time budget stuff, which I haven’t balanced yet, so I figured it was better to be too forgiving for this build. I’ll probably end up reducing the number of non-penalty warnings or jacking up the penalty as the game progresses.
I forgot about a third thing. On OS X, the alpha version used the full screen. The current beta is centered with a huge black area filling the rest of the screen. I liked the older way better.
What resolution is your monitor? The game is 90 pixels wider now so it’s possible you got boned on the whole-pixel scaling. There’s unfortunately not much I can do about it except go back to 3:2, which I think is much worse for gameplay with less space for document shuffling.
Quote from: MegaScience on March 14, 2013, 05:43:40 AM I encountered three very, very minor problems in Beta 0.5.5:
Great list, thanks for this! I’ll fix each of those before final.
In relation to posts by other people, it seems like a difficulty setting might be in order. Daily violations stack, less forgiveness, etc. Maybe you match the name of the person on our current last day to them for a tiny, tiny dialog? Then you could add some distrust systems for later days where dialog is directly monitored instead of only in relation to documentation being misread.
I’ll give some more thought to a difficulty level. It does kinda seem like it’s necessary. I don’t follow the dialog suggestion though.
Edit: Oh, one last thing. Would it be possible to have a toggle-able setting for the nudity in scans? It would make it easier for people to advertise your game through videos. :)
Good point. I’ll add a censorship setting.
Btw, did anyone catch Dari or Vince?
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#258 Armageddon (March 14, 2013 09:09 AM)
Got to the third day, half way through someone came up as a warning note came up, he said here are papers but nothing was put on the table. :no no no:Saving would be really helpful, or start for a certain day.
Love that you added sounds, some of them don’t fit right like the marffled voices when someone walks up. Still makes it a lot less boring.
Still love the game though, love all the stuff you’ve added, that terrorist attack on day 2 was quite disturbing. I feel like there is some conspiracy with the whore club place.
EDIT: Ope, I started it again and it let’s me start from Day 3. :grin:
EDIT: EDIT: Okay did day three again same guy didn’t give me papers, red shirt bald head, doubt that matters, isn’t it randomized?
#259 emacs (March 14, 2013 09:18 AM)
Try using the discrepancy tool on the rulebook and the desk, it should give you a denial visa or let you turn them away I think.#260 MegaScience (March 14, 2013 09:38 AM)
I caught Vince. I also got the guy selling women for sex - Was he Dari? I forgot. xDArmageddon, if they are missing a certain document, you can compare the rule in the rule book to the desk itself on the left side and it will give you the option to deny them. I like that guy. :)
It’s weird how a lot of the time, the violations I get are the thing I always look at and didn’t for that one person. At least twice, I got a violation for something I was making completely sure to check up until the person right before.
#261 Armageddon (March 14, 2013 09:50 AM)
No he gives no documents. So I have nothing to compare too, also it won’t let me use the tool on the rule book.EDIT: Ah, I’m dumb, you have to open the rule book and find it.
#262 accolon (March 14, 2013 11:39 AM)
Quote from: dukope on March 14, 2013, 07:44:44 AM I forgot about a third thing. On OS X, the alpha version used the full screen. The current beta is centered with a huge black area filling the rest of the screen. I liked the older way better.
What resolution is your monitor? The game is 90 pixels wider now so it’s possible you got boned on the whole-pixel scaling. There’s unfortunately not much I can do about it except go back to 3:2, which I think is much worse for gameplay with less space for document shuffling.
It’s 1680 x 1050, so this might be the reason.
I caught Vince. I didn’t let Dari enter the country, but the storyline didn’t go on that well…
Btw, I got penalized for letting a guy in who told me a wrong duration for his stay. When I asked him about the discrepancy, he corrected himself to the right value which was also stated on the entry permit, so everything seemed fine and I thought it was an intentional/scripted slip-up for the guy. It seems I was expected to send him away – the game is probably a little bit strict here. :)
#263 pluckyporcupine (March 14, 2013 02:07 PM)
Wow, this is really coming together. I liked THAT passport hahaha.Some things I noticed:
Man, those invalid cities are sneaky!
It’s odd to me that, even if the fingerprints match, you get a citation if their new alias isn’t on the list. The fingerprints matched! What more proof do you need? Maybe the records need updated.
The sounds add a lot to the game. My girlfriend thinks the loud speaker sound is a bit creepy, though.
I get citations for invalid durations when people correct how long they’re staying after getting it wrong at first.
- Later, I denied someone for the same thing and got a citation saying they were cleared for entry. >.>Once, I didn’t get the option to collect the fingerprints of a person with a discrepant picture.
[minor spoiler]
- The “Brothel Help.” It was a little unclear what “do something” meant. I got a citation for denying him and the reason was just “brothel help: invalid.”
[/minor spoiler]Oh, played on OSX. Works like a charm.
#264 Armageddon (March 14, 2013 02:40 PM)
How do you check if a city is valid?#265 pluckyporcupine (March 14, 2013 02:52 PM)
Quote from: Armageddon on March 14, 2013, 02:40:43 PM How do you check if a city is valid?
Go into the rule book, click on a country and check the list of valid issuing cities.On the passport, the city will be next to “ISS”.
#266 Armageddon (March 14, 2013 03:31 PM)
What about valid ID number? And how do you determine someones name is fake, and who is doing your job twice just to warn you. And what is EZIC. :epileptic:#267 pluckyporcupine (March 14, 2013 05:05 PM)
Quote from: Armageddon on March 14, 2013, 03:31:26 PM What about valid ID number? And how do you determine someones name is fake, and who is doing your job twice just to warn you. And what is EZIC. :epileptic:
You have to check to make sure that the same ID number is on both documents. And the name.#268 DustyDrake (March 14, 2013 05:27 PM)
Surprisingly this game is fairly immersive when it comes down to it.
After the first few of those brothel ads that came through, I just stopped looking at them, and even after the day with the strip searching, I was immensely suspicious of that group.
Will others still try to smuggle contraband in? It’s kind of weird how one day there will be one thing you specifically have to look for, and the next it’s just gone.
Honestly, almost every one of the people I searched I detained, so I don’t see how many of those people could’ve formally complained!
#269 March 14, 2013 08:19 PM
Quote from: accolon on March 14, 2013, 11:39:49 AM Btw, I got penalized for letting a guy in who told me a wrong duration for his stay. When I asked him about the discrepancy, he corrected himself to the right value which was also stated on the entry permit, so everything seemed fine and I thought it was an intentional/scripted slip-up for the guy. It seems I was expected to send him away – the game is probably a little bit strict here. :)
It’s a bug! Just checked the logic and it’s not clearing the error properly after he corrects himself. Will fix.
- It’s odd to me that, even if the fingerprints match, you get a citation if their new alias isn’t on the list. The fingerprints matched! What more proof do you need? Maybe the records need updated.
This basically means the permit (or idcard) is forged or from someone else. So his identity is right but the doc is wrong. DENIED.
- The sounds add a lot to the game. My girlfriend thinks the loud speaker sound is a bit creepy, though.
- I get citations for invalid durations when people correct how long they’re staying after getting it wrong at first.
- Later, I denied someone for the same thing and got a citation saying they were cleared for entry. >.>
Yup, same bug as above.
- Once, I didn’t get the option to collect the fingerprints of a person with a discrepant picture.
Fingerprinting isn’t enabled for the first few days so these guys have to be rejected outright.
[minor spoiler]
- The “Brothel Help.” It was a little unclear what “do something” meant. I got a citation for denying him and the reason was just “brothel help: invalid.”
[/minor spoiler]
That’s another bug. It shouldn’t issue a citation since the ’task’ is outside the legal border rules. If you can believe, I never once let that guy through in my testing (morals) so I never saw this citation.
Quote from: DustyDrake on March 14, 2013, 05:27:40 PM Surprisingly this game is fairly immersive when it comes down to it.
Thanks!
Will others still try to smuggle contraband in? It’s kind of weird how one day there will be one thing you specifically have to look for, and the next it’s just gone.
Honestly, almost every one of the people I searched I detained, so I don’t see how many of those people could’ve formally complained!
Yeah every time a new mechanic is introduced, the errors will tend to use it much more. There’s nearly a new mechanic every day at the beginning so it definitely feels like the immigrants are somehow cooperating with the inspector’s learning process. :lips sealed: There should be more contraband after the learning settles down.
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#270 pluckyporcupine (March 14, 2013 08:31 PM)
Quote from: dukope on March 14, 2013, 08:19:45 PM That’s another bug. It shouldn’t issue a citation since the ’task’ is outside the legal border rules. If you can believe, I never once let that guy through in my testing (morals) so I never saw this citation.
Neither did I. That’s what confused me.
#271 March 14, 2013 09:13 PM
Quote from: johnki on March 14, 2013, 08:31:54 PM Quote from: dukope on March 14, 2013, 08:19:45 PM That’s another bug. It shouldn’t issue a citation since the ’task’ is outside the legal border rules. If you can believe, I never once let that guy through in my testing (morals) so I never saw this citation.
Neither did I. That’s what confused me.
Sorry, meant to say that I detained him every time. Never tried just denying him.
Just found the bug. Thanks for the heads up. You should get a citation for denying (since his docs are all clear). But it’s supposed to say “Applicant clear for entry” on the citation instead of the “Brothel Help” thing.
I now realize this is kinda weird since your two options are to arrest him or let him through. Seems that if arresting is ok, you should be able to just deny him without penalty. Not quite sure how to resolve that.
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#272 Roshirai (March 14, 2013 09:16 PM)
Good fun, though my poor family is doomed. :)Only thing I noticed that no one else seems to have posted: after taking my third penalty, the printout claimed I had been docked 10 credits, but I was only docked 5 credits in the end-of-day summary.
I actually managed to get three mistakes on two separate days! I blame this on the fact that it seemed like I was being paid by the applicant, so I was busting my ass to try to deal with as many people out of the lineup as I could. :)
#273 pluckyporcupine (March 14, 2013 09:26 PM)
Quote from: dukope on March 14, 2013, 09:13:05 PM I now realize this is kinda weird since your two options are to arrest him or let him through. Seems that if arresting is ok, you should be able to just deny him without penalty. Not quite sure how to resolve that.
Maybe make it so you can highlight his name on the note and his passport to get a positive ID and THEN allow the player to choose whether to deny him or detain him?#274 MegaScience (March 15, 2013 01:11 AM)
Well that wouldn’t make a difference. His papers would still be in order according to the bureaucracy, so as far as they know he’d be cleared for entry. You’d still only have the option of accepting him or flagging him to be detained. Unless you add something about you informing them, but then they’d decide whether to send him away or take him in for credit of stopping his crimes.#275 keon (March 15, 2013 08:29 PM)
I’d just like to say that your games are both amazing and inspirational, dukope. I played through The Republia Times and got a few laughs and some quick thinking done, was amazed at Mightier, and am going to buy Helsing’s Fire for sure.I experienced a game-breaking bug in my playthrough of Papers, Please, though. On Day 3, there’s a guy who’s all like, “OK, let’s do this! Arstotzka is best country! I can’t wait!” etc. He doesn’t give me any papers, I can’t send him away or detain him (or at least I couldn’t figure out how), and the crowd doesn’t leave until he shows up. Every time he came up he was a short bald man with a white mustache in a red coat. I tried reloading the game a few times, and he didn’t go away. Is this the mandatory stopping point or should I either a)start a new game or b)download the game again?
Also, I want to offer my services as a linguist-y person and design some languages for you. Not just English ciphers à la Skyrim’s Dragon Tongue, but an actual grammar and everything. If you’d like, I can provide some text for propaganda posters, dialogue and such in the Arstotzkan and Kolechian languages, maybe more. Perhaps the inspector only speaks Arstotzkan and certain immigrants can insult/compliment him and the like in their native tongue! Nothing special, but in my opinion these kinds of details would really seal the deal on the game’s polish.
#276 MegaScience (March 15, 2013 08:39 PM)
Quote from: keon on March 15, 2013, 08:29:29 PM I experienced a game-breaking bug in my playthrough of Papers, Please, though. On Day 3, there’s a guy who’s all like, “OK, let’s do this! Arstotzka is best country! I can’t wait!” etc. He doesn’t give me any papers, I can’t send him away or detain him (or at least I couldn’t figure out how), and the crowd doesn’t leave until he shows up. Every time he came up he was a short bald man with a white mustache in a red coat. I tried reloading the game a few times, and he didn’t go away. Is this the mandatory stopping point or should I either a)start a new game or b)download the game again?
keon, when they happens, you go to the Rulebook, go into Basic Rules, then compare the rule about requiring a passport to the empty table on the left. It will give a discrepancy error and allow you to deny him on the basis of missing passport.I had the same problem back in Alpha 0.1.1. I remember in Beta 0.5.5 he added an instruction about it to the information you get at the start of each day. Make sure to click through all the pages of the daily document for any special instructions.
#277 keon (March 15, 2013 08:43 PM)
Quote from: MegaScience on March 15, 2013, 08:39:13 PM Rulebook
Basic Rules
requiring a passport
discrepancy error
deny him
missing passport
Got it, thanks!
#278 March 16, 2013 04:51 AM
Quote from: Roshirai on March 14, 2013, 09:16:57 PM Only thing I noticed that no one else seems to have posted: after taking my third penalty, the printout claimed I had been docked 10 credits, but I was only docked 5 credits in the end-of-day summary.
Nice catch. You’re the first person to notice, including me. Gotta fix that.
Quote from: keon on March 15, 2013, 08:29:29 PM I’d just like to say that your games are both amazing and inspirational, dukope. I played through The Republia Times and got a few laughs and some quick thinking done, was amazed at Mightier, and am going to buy Helsing’s Fire for sure.
Wow, thank you for the kind words! :)
Also, I want to offer my services as a linguist-y person and design some languages for you.
I’ll keep this in mind but I don’t foresee the need for anything quite like that in Papers Please. I appreciate the offer though.
#279 March 16, 2013 06:27 AM
Upscaling
For a while now, I’ve been thinking about how to take this pixel-graphic game and upscale it to a modern or even retina res. Although I personally like old-school pixel graphics, I don’t think the appeal holds for the general population. Recently I started playing around with some options.
Hello Neighbor
I started with the game’s native res of 570x320, then scaled it up x2 using nearest neighbor scaling:
Looks good. As designed. Pixelly.
Vectorize
My original plan was to manually (using Illustrator’s LiveTrace) vectorize all the game’s graphics, save them as SVG, then rasterize them to the appropriate resolution on load. The faces in Helsing’s Fire got this treatment and it looked great. For Papers Please, This is a much bigger task than it sounds like initially, mainly due to the upgrade from pixel fonts to proper TTFs. That requires all new font selections and basically blows the page layouts I’ve done so far. Working from the screenshot, I vectorized everything to get this:
Hmm.. Not as f*ckin rad as I expected. The docs are much harder to read now and it feels like an inconsistent level of detail. Some of that could probably be fixed with fatter typefaces but I was tired of looking at fonts at this point. I also really miss that “ARSTOTZKA” font on the entry permit. Couldn’t find anything like it in TTF.
There’s Special Stuff For That
Ok, next try: Fancy pixel rescaling. In these modern times, there are a whole bucketload of fancy pixel rescaling techniques used in the emulator scene: EPX, SuperEagle, Super2xSa, etc. I researched a few of these before stumbling on the daddy of them all, hqx. Searching for resources on that led me to an impressive pixel-to-vector algorithm that regrettably doesn’t come with source code. It’s not a total loss though, as they’ve set up a great comparison page where you can compare the results of many different algorithms easily. Here you can see hqx does really quite well.
Based on that promise, I grabbed the hqx source and compiled it for OSX with some help from this post on the cocos2d forums. Some scaling techniques can handle dithered areas well, but hqx apparently isn’t one of them. So as a first step, I converted all the dithered areas in the original image to solid blocks, then ran hqx:
Not bad. This has a much more consistent level of detail. The text gets a _little_ weird, but I could fix that manually. It even maintains the pixel style without actually being pixelly, which I like.
Whither Dither
Going back to compare hqx to nearest-neighbor, however, I’m still sorta drawn to the rough original. Especially when looking at the non-dithered version:
Still chunky, but doesn’t have the obvious low-res dithering.
No Conclusion
And that’s where I am right now. Haven’t been able to decide for sure but I’m leaning towards hqx, with hand-tweaking and assets pre-baked at 2x, 3x, and 4x.
Replies
#280 MegaScience (March 16, 2013 06:51 AM)
On subject: I kind of like how it is now, but if anything, I’d agree on hqx.For the game: Would a settings area be added? I’d like direct control over fullscreen instead of clicking a open in browser button, as well as controlling the volume. The music is good, but relatively loud. I assume the difficulty setting and nudity toggle would be in a setting area anyway.
#281 Core Xii (March 16, 2013 12:38 PM)
Bug (?): You can toggle “rent” in the day end screen even without the checkbox. Just click on the amount. (it’s a bit finicky about clicking, try hitting the red pixels exact)The name submission doesn’t seem to work. I can’t edit “YourName, Here” or sex.
#282 March 17, 2013 07:31 AM
Quote from: MegaScience on March 16, 2013, 06:51:50 AM For the game: Would a settings area be added? I’d like direct control over fullscreen instead of clicking a open in browser button, as well as controlling the volume. The music is good, but relatively loud. I assume the difficulty setting and nudity toggle would be in a setting area anyway.
Yeah I’ll get a settings page in there. At the moment, you can toggle fullscreen with ALT+ENTER (windows) or OPTION+RETURN (osx).
Quote from: Core Xii on March 16, 2013, 12:38:03 PM Bug (?): You can toggle “rent” in the day end screen even without the checkbox. Just click on the amount. (it’s a bit finicky about clicking, try hitting the red pixels exact) The name submission doesn’t seem to work. I can’t edit “YourName, Here” or sex.
Hah, that would explain why someone was mentioning the “optional” rent. I intended to make it mandatory. Just found the bug and fixed it, thanks. To submit your name, you need to enter your email address and click the activation link that gets sent to you. You can’t edit that text directly. Maybe I’ll bake the text into the image to avoid confusion.
Passports
A while back I mentioned (and it was suggested) that the passports from different countries look too similar. As part of the general filling-out of assets in beta, I’ve added unique details to each passport style:
They’re all still pretty basic designs but hopefully it’s now easier to differentiate the nationalities at a glance. Watch out for Kolechia’s spears. Those things are sharp.
Replies
#283 Panurge (March 17, 2013 08:05 AM)
Fantastic. Everything I’d hoped for. The key moment for me came on the second day when I found myself scrutinising a man’s documents more carefully than usual just because he had brusquely told me that he was in a hurry. You can just wait, you bastard, I thought. Now that’s immersion!Similarly, I detained a man who I would have preferred to let go (I believed his claim of being innocent - you’ll know who I’m talking about here but I’m being vague to avoid spoilers) purely because I thought that I might receive some kind of reward for catching him and I desperately needed the money for my family… I don’t remember the last time I made a choice as considered as that in a game.
I love the story elements, the flashes of dark humour and the genuine satisfaction of becoming more efficient at processing documents (as I’m sure most other players did, I had my own little routine figured out). I truly cannot wait for the final build.
Okay, I’m going to to shrink down now for some more detailed feedback which will likely contain spoilers:
If I remember correctly, the girl who asked for help actually gave me a brothel card on her way in. Given her story, she seemed unusually keen to advertise!
I turned the brothel owner away without detaining him, my logic being that I would help the girls by preventing him from entering the country, whereas if I detained him he would only be released (or I would get into trouble) because I had no real reason for his arrest. Perhaps this course could also be seen as helpful?
My family died on about day 4 or 5, even though I’d received no financial penalties, which seemed a little harsh (and the game loses a good deal of its dramatic tension once they’re all beyond help). Did I miss something I should have been doing (I think I fed and heated them as best as I could)?
A smuggler gave me a bribe for letting him through (which I actually did by accident). He told me it was ‘as promised’ but I don’t think he had mentioned anything previously. I still pocketed it, of course!
The citations troubled me a little because they seemed so omniscient. For example, when I let in the lady who begged to see her son, I was immediately informed of my mistake. Taking the citation as an actual message from my superiors meant assuming that they had now caught the lady (otherwise how would they know?) so my act of kindness was all for nothing. More generally, the constant unfailing observation gave the impression that my job was kind of unnecessary because the authorities knew all that was going on anyway, or were rechecking my work.
Personally, I guess I would have liked it if there had been more of a risk factor to the citations. You might get away with a mistake, but it might well be picked up on later (particularly if you let someone in who would then get arrested or kept someone out who would later complain). You could even have it so that you are rewarded financially for every illegal immigrant you keep out, meaning that the downside of kindly letting one through would be a missed reward rather than a citation.
The citations do serve a useful purpose in letting players know where they have gone wrong when they are learning to play, however. Perhaps you could have an initial probationary period of a few days during which time someone will supervise everything you do?
Anyway, this was just a niggle rather than anything which really spoiled the game - the current system still worked perfectly well for me. I’m just musing aloud in case any of my thoughts can be of use.
I couldn’t work out if there was a time limit to each day. If there isn’t then I think it might be nice to include one, rewarding players financially for getting through a lot of immigrants (perhaps after a minimum quota which is always processed, allowing you to make sure story characters are kept in) but at risk of making more mistakes which could see them heavily penalised.
Finally, a couple of really small suggestions from pedant’s corner:
The ‘interrogate’ button seemed a little small and I missed it quite a few times when clicking. Could just be my problem, of course…
I would have liked the countries to be listed in the handbook by alphabetical order, so that I didn’t need to keep returning to the map.
#284 Core Xii (March 17, 2013 10:30 AM)
Quote from: dukope on March 17, 2013, 07:31:46 AM To submit your name, you need to enter your email address and click the activation link that gets sent to you. You can’t edit that text directly.
Ohh… the page says “Enter a working email address for a confirmation link to submit your name.” (emphasis mine). The way most websites work is that you fill the form, then they send you an email with a link to confirm the information. Perhaps drop the “confirm” part from the instruction. :)
#285 pluckyporcupine (March 17, 2013 02:18 PM)
Okay, my girlfriend and I both agree that the vectorized one looks really nice, especially in the first-person view. The hqx one also looks really nice but not quite as nice as the vectorized one.Also, the new passports are awesome. :hand thumbs up right:
#286 March 17, 2013 09:32 PM
Thanks very much for the detailed feedback Panurge!
Quote from: Panurge on March 17, 2013, 08:05:04 AM The key moment for me came on the second day when I found myself scrutinising a man’s documents more carefully than usual just because he had brusquely told me that he was in a hurry. You can just wait, you bastard, I thought. Now that’s immersion!
I like that encounter because even though he (or she) is a dick, the docs are in order so you have to approve entry. I imagine there’s a fair bit of those teeth-gritting moments for real immigration inspectors. I stamp the passport all crooked in those cases.
** SPOILERS IN FABULOUS GREEN **
If I remember correctly, the girl who asked for help actually gave me a brothel card on her way in. Given her story, she seemed unusually keen to advertise!
That card ties her into the other girls and the brothel story thread so I figured it was important to drop. I tried to make her seem less than enthusiastic about handing it over though.
I turned the brothel owner away without detaining him … Perhaps this course could also be seen as helpful?
Other people have sorta mentioned this. I wanted this encounter to be a case where the player could “do more” than just denying entry.
My family died on about day 4 or 5…Did I miss something I should have been doing (I think I fed and heated them as best as I could)?
No, you didn’t miss anything. The night-time family stuff is functionally implemented in beta, but it’s not balanced yet. When I’m playing, I completely blast through each day with loads of money so it’s hard to figure out what the average player will make. I’ll get it tuned better before release.
A smuggler gave me a bribe for letting him through (which I actually did by accident). He told me it was ‘as promised’ but I don’t think he had mentioned anything previously. I still pocketed it, of course!
Whoops! I can fix that so he only gives you the bribe after offering.
The citations troubled me a little because they seemed so omniscient….The citations do serve a useful purpose in letting players know where they have gone wrong when they are learning to play, however. Perhaps you could have an initial probationary period of a few days during which time someone will supervise everything you do?
Yeah the citations are something I decided are absolutely necessary for the gameplay aspect. Going back to the alpha, I find it really frustrating to not know exactly what I missed when getting cited. The immediate feedback also allows me to skip a lot of introductory tutorial text and let the player learn from their mistakes as they go. Story-wise the citations are a little thorny but I have plans to address that as well.
I couldn’t work out if there was a time limit to each day.
There’s both a time limit and a quota. You only get paid for applicants processed before 6PM, but all days have a minimum number you have to process. So the faster you are at approving/denying, the more money you’ll make.
The ‘interrogate’ button seemed a little small and I missed it quite a few times when clicking. Could just be my problem, of course… I would have liked the countries to be listed in the handbook by alphabetical order, so that I didn’t need to keep returning to the map.
I’ll see if I can make that button a little bigger. Back when there were supposed to be more options it needed to fit exactly over the mic. But now it’s the only thing there so I should be able to adjust it. I’ll also change the country order in the rule book. I never flip pages (always go back to the map first), so the order is basically random at the moment.
Quote from: Core Xii on March 17, 2013, 10:30:53 AM Ohh… the page says “Enter a working email address for a confirmation link to submit your name.” (emphasis mine). The way most websites work is that you fill the form, then they send you an email with a link to confirm the information. Perhaps drop the “confirm” part from the instruction.
I just updated the page, baking the name into the image and rewording the text :)
Quote from: johnki on March 17, 2013, 02:18:27 PM Okay, my girlfriend and I both agree that the vectorized one looks really nice, especially in the first-person view. The hqx one also looks really nice but not quite as nice as the vectorized one.
Ok, good to know. I’m now thinking about vectorizing just the faces separately and using hqx on the rest, with hand-tweaked fonts.
Replies
#287 DustyDrake (March 17, 2013 11:18 PM)
Perhaps show the quota somewhere.
Because I just process ’till the day is done.#288 wmcduff (March 18, 2013 08:59 AM)
Yeah, I’d actually like bookmarks for the individual country pages. I’m getting close to having all the cities memorized, but that section of the book is the part I use the most often. Even thumbholes with letters like I for Impor would help.Out of curiosity, how many people a day do you get through? I’m at about 10, but I’m a pretty exacting sort…
#289 Core Xii (March 18, 2013 11:14 AM)
I think I process around 9..12 people a day, depending on the dynamics.I have a question. Does clicking the loudspeaker and having “have your papers ready!” said actually help people ready their papers? So you don’t have to ask for the missing document all the time?
#290 accolon (March 18, 2013 12:26 PM)
Quote from: dukope on March 16, 2013, 06:27:32 AM For a while now, I’ve been thinking about how to take this pixel-graphic game and upscale it to a modern or even retina res. Although I personally like old-school pixel graphics, I don’t think the appeal holds for the general population.
I really love the current look. The low-color pixel graphics perfectly fit the 80s setting. They remind me of old games I used to play on my Commodore 64 when I was a child during that time. No need to vectorize anything. :well, hello there!:
#291 phi6 (March 18, 2013 11:20 PM)
So I downloaded the beta this morning and have played in non-stop until it ended! So incredibly addictive - it looks and plays like a simple game but is surprisingly immersive and satisfying. I love the dystopian setting and can’t wait for the full release.One minor glitch - sometimes the next person in the queue walks underneath the guard’s feet, I think the z layer is incorrect here.
#292 phi6 (March 19, 2013 08:54 AM)
I much preferred the original pixel look - dithered or not doesn’t matter to me. In my opinion the intended design is always superior, regardless of pixel or vector - tricks that upscale using interpolation are nice ideas but in practice tend to look a bit fake.Maybe it’s just me, as they remind me of emulators!
#293 March 20, 2013 07:36 AM
@DustyDrake
You don’t have any control over the quota so I think it’s ok to not show it and expect the player to just process until the day magically ends.
@wmcduff
I’m thinking to add tabs for the 3 sections, but probably not one for each country. I kinda like flipping around in the book.
@Core Xii
Clicking the loudspeaker out of turn doesn’t have any effect. I just thought to put some dialog there for people who tried it.
@Blambo
Hehe, sorry about the headache.
@accolon, phi6, alastair, etc
The pixel/vector split doesn’t surprise me. I like both styles, personally. A few people really prefer the vector since it’s easier to read. Most people say the pixels are better. I think that once you get outside the game scene, and especially the indie scene, there’s less focus on this and most people would feel more comfortable with smooth vectors.
More Faces
One male and one female sheet. It never ends. Most of the clothes look like they’re from Star Trek at this point.
Click for timelapse drawing again.
Bombcasted
Had to share this. The Giant Bombcast guys talk about Papers, Please (at 2:23:50): Giant Bombcast 03-19-2013
Replies
#294 Quarry (March 20, 2013 08:26 AM)
2, 1 is 185 cm with his hair#295 Glic2000 (March 20, 2013 11:35 AM)
This game is brilliant. I have nothing else to add. :)
#296 March 20, 2013 07:56 PM
Quote from: Quarry on March 20, 2013, 08:26:49 AM 2, 1 is 185 cm with his hair
Heh, there’s an xml file where I enter how high the hair goes above the head in order to calculate the height correctly. That guy’s hair is the tallest at 18 pixels. True height = ~168cm.
Thanks Glic :D
#297 March 23, 2013 02:25 AM
Intro Screens
More simple than stunning.
Replies
#298 DustyDrake (March 23, 2013 07:17 PM)
Quote from: dukope on March 23, 2013, 02:25:02 AM Intro Screens
More simple than stunning.
[imgs]
Simple stunning images that perfectly illustrate the text below#299 Armageddon (March 23, 2013 07:38 PM)
Love those images. I think the apartment one is lacking in some way though.#300 arnemeyer (March 24, 2013 03:51 PM)
I have to say, given the time period you’re hearkening back to, the pixelly version seems to evoke that feeling the best, even if it’s actually better than what was possible at the time from what I remember/can research.I’m not caring much for the pure vector version unfortunately. So +1 vote for keeping it blocky pixels.
#301 corpocracy (March 25, 2013 12:30 AM)
**Spoilerish**
Just played my first run through of the beta and loved it. My heart literally STOPPED after the suicide bomber on day 7(?). I was rushing through the end of the day, let a guy through, fumbling with the papers of the next person when the shutters slam shut, I hear a loud bang, and when I look over, all I saw was blood. I felt myself actually getting angry with every Kolechian trying to cross the border.Anyways, I just had a few clarification I wanted to make. When I played it seems like I completed a few “missions” and I got two token things. At first, I thought this was money and was thrilled. But when I got the EOD screen, I didn’t know what to do with my new shiny things. I’m assuming the tokens are just a means to mark advancements, but I think this could be made more clear in the End of Day screen.
Also, and I know you’re still balancing this, but I get pretty poor pretty quickly. I know there are options for getting bribed and for getting penalized, but I think there should be incentives for doing “well” (at least under Arstotzka definitions). For instance, if I detain a “proven” terrorist, I should get a small bonus (either straight money or, hey! we’ll cover the rent for today comrade!). My main reason for this is because it takes a lot of time to properly identify and detain suspects. You have to pull out the rulebook, use the indicator, interrogate them, sometimes call for fingerprints or strip search, and then finally detain them. All of this takes time away from making your quota for the day which ends up leaving you poorer for doing your job effectively. On the other hand, I could just as easily deny a person and save a lot of time and actually make more money. This may be somewhat intended, but I still think there should be some reward path for being a loyal government dog.
#302 Armageddon (March 25, 2013 01:49 AM)
Yeah keep the pixels, I do like the higher res font but, the pixels are better.#303 SlappyMoose (March 26, 2013 02:07 PM)
I registered just so I could respond to this. Please keep the hard edged, pixelated style. (dithering looks great, as well). It just works so well with the style of game and the message it sends, anything more advanced would just be silly. It looks beautiful as is and if anyone really decides not to play the game just because they dislike pixels, then that’s their loss.#304 MATATAT (March 28, 2013 12:33 PM)
I haven’t played through the game so far yet (but I will). I’m only on level 2 after accidentally playing that flash thing where all the people have issues with their papers. So he played through the game and one thing he mentioned to me was that towards the end he said it was hard to break even every day. He had thought that someone was going to approach him about doing something illegal. I actually thought it was a great idea for someone to approach you about some illegal smuggling or something to get a little extra money. I’m not sure how open the game is to outside features but personally I think it would be a neat event/feature to add to the game.#305 Zaratustra (April 02, 2013 02:32 PM)
Denying entry to Vince Lestrade spits a error message on the warning slip. (How do I even recognize him from the news, anyway?)#306 pluckyporcupine (April 02, 2013 03:18 PM)
Quote from: Zaratustra on April 02, 2013, 02:32:26 PM Denying entry to Vince Lestrade spits a error message on the warning slip. (How do I even recognize him from the news, anyway?)
I’m pretty sure they mention his name in a memo or something.