TIGSource - April 2013 (176 posts)
#307 April 02, 2013 10:03 PM
Back from GDC! Another great show this year. The big surprise for me was seeing my game, The Republia Times, mentioned in the DIY Game Revolution talk by Porpentine and Terry Cavanagh. I should probably quit now while I’m ahead.
Quote from: arnemeyer on March 24, 2013, 03:51:59 PM I have to say, given the time period you’re hearkening back to, the pixelly version seems to evoke that feeling the best, even if it’s actually better than what was possible at the time from what I remember/can research.
Thought you had my back, arne!
Quote from: corpocracy on March 25, 2013, 12:30:09 AM **Spoilerish**
Anyways, I just had a few clarification I wanted to make. When I played it seems like I completed a few “missions” and I got two token things. At first, I thought this was money and was thrilled. But when I got the EOD screen, I didn’t know what to do with my new shiny things. I’m assuming the tokens are just a means to mark advancements, but I think this could be made more clear in the End of Day screen.
I haven’t fully worked out what to do with the tokens. I like that they’re unmentioned and mostly hidden. They’ll probably just stay as meaningless achievements but I’ll try to add some explanation.
Quote from: Armageddon on March 25, 2013, 01:49:00 AM Yeah keep the pixels, I do like the higher res font but, the pixels are better.
Games that mix pixel resolutions make my eyes twitch. So, unfortunately, going with pixels means accepting the blocky font.
Pixels vs Vectors
When I say stupid stuff like “the general population prefers vectors”, I’m really just talking about myself. To me, the look of the game is not dependent on the pixels, but on the clean shapes and colors. Cleaner = better IMO. Pixels are great but they introduce an unintended roughness. My ideal game is nothing but razor-sharp visuals.
BUT, after a week at GDC, considering everyone’s input, and some more thought, I’ve decided to just stick with pixels for Papers Please. I guess the look has grown on me and I’m also not enamored with the vector alternatives. After all the game content is done I may re-evaluate the visuals but for now I’m happy with chunky pixels and low-res fonts.
Thanks to everybody (except traitor arne) for chiming in!
Replies
#308 phi6 (April 03, 2013 10:43 PM)
Great decision about the pixels mate!I think either vectors or pixels look great, as long as they were originally designed from scratch as intended. Perhaps it was not vectors that were a problem per se, but the 2xSai etc.. filters you applied that was a bit jarring?
#309 arnemeyer (April 05, 2013 05:52 PM)
Quote from: dukope on April 02, 2013, 10:03:40 PM Thought you had my back, arne!
I bet you went to that neo-retro smoothing out pixels for HD displays talk at GDC too didn’t you? *smh*
Glad you went the pixel route though. Validates my existence on this world.Quote from: dukope on April 02, 2013, 10:03:40 PM I haven’t fully worked out what to do with the tokens. I like that they’re unmentioned and mostly hidden. They’ll probably just stay as meaningless achievements but I’ll try to add some explanation.
Going against the grain here, I kind of like how they are meaningless and perhaps don’t have much of an explanation. Even as tokens, and imagining how things may have been in the Bloc way back when, I can imagine dangling a token reward (get it) as a carrot without really explaining why you would want it or what it actually means. Like, “Congratulations, here is your Arstotzka Broze Award! You will be the envy of your housing block!” And just leave it at that.
#310 team_q (April 05, 2013 10:55 PM)
Just played through this, it’s really great!
#311 April 06, 2013 10:19 PM
Trailin'
I’ve taken a break from development and spent the last few days working on a trailer. This is in preparation for setting up a Steam Greenlight page. There’s still a month or so of work left on the game but I figure I should take the time now to get my ducks in a row. I’m not too optimistic about Greenlight so the sooner it’s set up, the longer I have to collect votes.
I hate doing trailers until the moment it’s done, then I’m glad I did it. For the past few projects I used iMovie but this time I’m upgrading to FCPX. So far so good. I really prefer this clip-style editing over other NLEs like Premiere.
My main problem with trailers is that I am a complete slave to synced music & visuals. I almost always end up writing tons of custom code to export synced frames from the game. I tell myself: “This’ll be useful later, I can swap out the characters and re-export easily”. It’s always BS but I can’t help it. Papers Please is even a little tougher because the theme music changes tempo as it progresses. This gives the track a nice racing effect but man is it a bitch to sync video with.
Anyways, I’ll probably end up spending a week on this trailer. From there I’ll do the rest of the Greenlight rigamarole, then get back to development and finish up the game.
#312 April 11, 2013 01:35 AM
New Bird
Old bird was boring. New bird is nonstop screaming at top volume.
#313 April 11, 2013 06:02 AM
Greenlight
Finally finished the trailer and set up a Greenlight page. Please vote the living hell out of it.
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#314 team_q (April 11, 2013 06:36 AM)
Voted with all my might.#315 ImaginaryThomas (April 11, 2013 06:39 AM)
Green Lights For Arstotzka!#316 Belimoth (April 11, 2013 06:41 AM)
Hmm, the logo on Greenlight doesn’t look quite right…
DISCREPANCY DETECTED
No thanks / Not interested
Next item in qeue
#317 April 11, 2013 06:55 AM
Quote from: Belimoth on April 11, 2013, 06:41:04 AM Hmm, the logo on Greenlight doesn’t look quite right…
DISCREPANCY DETECTED
No thanks / Not interested
Next item in qeue
There’s another way in.
Replies
#318 Belimoth (April 11, 2013 06:58 AM)
:cheesy:#319 randomshade (April 11, 2013 07:46 AM)
Voted! And forced all my comrades to do the same :D#320 pluckyporcupine (April 11, 2013 08:33 AM)
Voted! :hand thumbs up right:#321 arnemeyer (April 11, 2013 10:35 AM)
GLORY TO ARSTOTZKA!I voted. Good luck, this would be awesome.
#322 gimymblert (April 11, 2013 06:05 PM)
Voted, this is a top game#323 effete_denizen (April 12, 2013 03:50 AM)
Voted for the game! I’ve asked my friends to have a look and upvote too!
Can you be bribed in the game? In the video when they slide their papers through to you I imagined a small wad of money coming in-between the pages. I guess the money would be useless to the player though as it would have no purpose other than to identify someone as ejection material.
#324 team_q (April 12, 2013 04:23 AM)
No way man, you need that money to keep your mother-in-law warm.#325 emacs (April 12, 2013 07:46 AM)
Voted, good luck!#326 fylth (April 12, 2013 08:30 AM)
Voted for the game! I’ve asked my friends to have a look and upvote too!
Can you be bribed in the game? In the video when they slide their papers through to you I imagined a small wad of money coming in-between the pages. I guess the money would be useless to the player though as it would have no purpose other than to identify someone as ejection material.
Someone actually does that in the beta, you can choose to hand them in or keep it for yourself to feed your family. I did the latter of course, the wage you get paid is fairly lousy :tongue:
#327 effete_denizen (April 12, 2013 08:41 AM)
Haha that is awesome! This is on my list of games to get.#328 Pixelulsar (April 12, 2013 12:11 PM)
Voted! Great trailer, after watching it I feel like I want to stamp things to the beat of that song in the trailer.#329 Rusk (April 12, 2013 05:40 PM)
Voted as well. Good luck! :shrug:#330 melos han-tani (April 12, 2013 09:31 PM)
YOURE GOING TO GET GREENLIT LUCAS#331 Panurge (April 12, 2013 11:00 PM)
Please enter the green channel immediately. Kindly remember that customs officials are not allowed to accept high-fives.#332 Eigen (April 13, 2013 01:06 AM)
Quote from: seagaia on April 12, 2013, 09:31:36 PM YOURE GOING TO GET GREENLIT LUCAS
AGREED. YOU TOTLA DESERVE ALL THIS RECKOGNITION! :hand clap:
#333 April 13, 2013 01:20 AM
Thanks everyone!
Here’s the current percentages:
Bit depressing really..
..but according to the top averages, in the ballpark:
In summary, Greenlight is weird and I’m still worried.
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#334 Flotilla (April 13, 2013 01:47 AM)
Quote from: dukope on April 13, 2013, 01:20:29 AM Thanks everyone!
Here’s the current percentages:
Bit depressing really....but according to the top averages, in the ballpark:
In summary, Greenlight is weird and I’m still worried.
The fact that you managed to get a majority positive vote in the pool of cynics that is Steam Greenlight is a blessing, take it to mean that your game is good.
I’m really looking forward to your game, and I hope to see lots of neat stuff added before the game is shipped off to Steam (which I’m sure it will).
#335 Quarry (April 13, 2013 04:33 AM)
I think Greenlight is simply a bad idea on it’ own but you can’t get your games on Steam without it…#336 MegaScience (April 13, 2013 07:39 AM)
Wasn’t Valve suggesting to take down Greenlight and do it ‘correctly’ based on what they’ve learned or something?
#337 April 13, 2013 07:56 AM
Quote from: MegaScience on April 13, 2013, 07:39:05 AM Wasn’t Valve suggesting to take down Greenlight and do it ‘correctly’ based on what they’ve learned or something?
Yeah I’ve heard this too. But who knows what they’re planning or when. For all I know it could be worse than GL. Right now the goal is to get at least one game on Steam. After that there’ll be a Valve account manager contact and GL won’t be necessary for future titles.
Interestingly, a game I made with my wife, Mightier, was in the very first batch of indie games added to Steam ~4 years ago. But that was freeware and whoever handled it at Valve is long gone.
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#338 Flotilla (April 13, 2013 12:46 PM)
Quote from: dukope on April 13, 2013, 07:56:34 AM Interestingly, a game I made with my wife, Mightier, was in the very first batch of indie games added to Steam ~4 years ago. But that was freeware and whoever handled it at Valve is long gone.
Valve was really desperate for content up until late 2009 or so. Now that they actually have lots of publishers backing them, they reject all the indie devs that were there first… it’s a shame.
#339 fallacy (April 13, 2013 01:25 PM)
Hey, I just wanted to let you know that the game is awesome so far…too bad it crashes when you want to play the 9th day…Also, someone added the game to GOG’s wishlist:
http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/papers_please
#340 dD_ShockTrooper (April 14, 2013 12:40 AM)
This game is awesome, I still can’t get over the “Are you a woman or a man?” errors. I think the difficulty in the game is good, I think it fits the theme for it to be difficult to pay all the bills if you’re being a good checkpoint officer who obeys the law.Although, I found the citation penalties were too soft, you could actually just stamp everything without looking and still make $70-80 each day after deductions. Also, it turns out that paying penalties is as optional as the rent, and as a result I managed to get $815 in savings at the end of the 8 days, with all of my family “OK”.
There wasn’t even any consequences for doing so, the only people that went on to cause trouble had legitimate documents anyway…
Finally, if you play the game through again and try refusing those Kolchians entry, it becomes pretty obvious that the game is forcing you to let one through…
#341 Flotilla (April 14, 2013 02:47 AM)
Quote from: dD_ShockTrooper on April 14, 2013, 12:40:46 AM Although, I found the citation penalties were too soft, you could actually just stamp everything without looking and still make $70-80 each day after deductions. Also, it turns out that paying penalties is as optional as the rent, and as a result I managed to get $815 in savings at the end of the 8 days, with all of my family “OK”.
Perhaps instead of deducting money continually, after 4-5 penalties the day ends prematurely due to the immigration inspector needing “counseling”. That’d likely leave you with much less money than you would have if you did it normally. Or if you really want to make sure people fill out the quota, just have the day outright fail. Just an idea, though.
Oh, and the end-of-day tally is buggy for me and a friend, and text appears over the button to go to the next day. Do you think that implementing a scrollbox for that would help?
And last thing! Will there be hotkeys to easily navigate through documents?
#342 April 14, 2013 09:52 AM
Quote from: dD_ShockTrooper on April 14, 2013, 12:40:46 AM Although, I found the citation penalties were too soft, you could actually just stamp everything without looking and still make $70-80 each day after deductions. Also, it turns out that paying penalties is as optional as the rent, and as a result I managed to get $815 in savings at the end of the 8 days, with all of my family “OK”.
There wasn’t even any consequences for doing so, the only people that went on to cause trouble had legitimate documents anyway…
This is a good point and something I never thought to try. I’ll probably end the game after 5 penalties or something.
Finally, if you play the game through again and try refusing those Kolchians entry, it becomes pretty obvious that the game is forcing you to let one through…
I don’t have to make the paperwork actually Kolechian, which might help. But really there are certain scripted things that will play out the same each time no matter what. A proper endless mode separate from the story mode should help with replayability.
Quote from: Flotilla on April 14, 2013, 02:47:18 AM Perhaps instead of deducting money continually, after 4-5 penalties the day ends prematurely due to the immigration inspector needing “counseling”.
Yup, that sounds good.
Oh, and the end-of-day tally is buggy for me and a friend, and text appears over the button to go to the next day. Do you think that implementing a scrollbox for that would help?
I hate scroll boxes but I’ll figure something out. Maybe drop to a smaller font if there are too many items.
And last thing! Will there be hotkeys to easily navigate through documents?
I’m not too crazy about keyboard shortcuts and I’m not even sure how that would work to navigate documents. I’ve thought about simplifying this aspect of the game a couple times, but shuffling things around is a pretty critical element of game’s mechanics. Right now you can use the space bar to toggle inspection mode and I’m thinking to add right-click to inspect+highlight in one go.
New Build, Not Exciting
I finally broke down and made a new build with minor fixes. There was a rare game-stopping bug on day 2 that someone helped me track down and I got tired of explaining that the day 3 no-papers guy was not a bug, just bad design. Curious to see if my brilliant solution works.
BETA 0.5.7 - GRAB IT HERE
- Added better hints for day 3 missing-papers guy
- Fixed progression stopping bug on day 2
- Fixed penalty after correcting mistaken visit duration
- Updated bird logo. Now with screaming
- Fixed clickable Rent/Penalties on night screen
Replies
#343 Quarry (April 14, 2013 11:17 AM)
WOO!!!
#344 DustyDrake (April 14, 2013 11:23 AM)
Awesome!#345 MegaScience (April 14, 2013 02:58 PM)
Looks like you need a new host for your files. Dropbox is giving a Too Much Traffic error. Anyone have any reliable suggestions?#346 Roshirai (April 14, 2013 07:39 PM)
Quote from: Quarry on April 13, 2013, 04:33:06 AM I think Greenlight is simply a bad idea on it’ own but you can’t get your games on Steam without it…
I reckon you can, though it’s difficult. You can still contact Valve directly for a slot, or they may offer you one based on a game’s festival performance or press coverage, or you can get one in cooperation with an indie-friendly publisher (Devolver Digital and Hotline Miami come to mind).It’s not a perfect system, obviously, but there are a lot of options for indies in this sort of position. The really hard part is making a truly great game!
#347 barley (April 15, 2013 05:34 AM)
Finally played this today after Northernlion’s video reminded me. The atmosphere is perfect, and it’s actually kind of difficult to make enough money every day, which I didn’t expect it to be. I like that it gradually gets more and more difficult as more bureaucracy gets piled on. The graphics are good, and the animations are amazing for being lo-fi (especially the explosions and gore when there’s an attack). I also like that there’s bits and pieces of plot-lines starting to come together, but not in an obvious way.I voted for this on greenlight, hope you get on there!
#348 Porrima (April 15, 2013 06:15 AM)
Glory to Arstotzka.I have played through the demo a few times, and I love this game - certainly the best communist borderpost game of the year! And not too shabby otherwise, too.
I have a subjective opinion. People have here expressed difficulty in raising money. I wish to offend no one, and don’t say this out of ego - but I have played computer games for more than 20 years of my 30 year life, and I have a very good visual memory and I’m good at pattern matching, if not in many other things.
Thus, I found the game very easy.
On my very first demo playthrough, though mistakes did happen, not once did my family miss either heat or food. I suppose the completed game won’t be much longer than twice the demo, or am I wrong? In any case, it’s a one night business if this is how it goes, for me.I would like some sort of “hardcore” or “true worker” mode, where you can only do one error per day or you get firing squaded. (Or something.)
Please consider this option, if it is not too hard to make, and I suppose it might not be. I wish to enjoy stamping passports for a longer time than I ever figured I’d enjoy stamping passports before I tried this game.
#349 mrbzzt (April 15, 2013 10:35 AM)
I love the way the game uses mouse controls to give the feeling of actually handling physical objects. However, moving through a multi-page document or book feels clunky and unnatural.It would be nice if the player could mouse scroll through a document or book under the cursor. Middle mouse click to go to be start of the document/book. Such interaction would have the same kind of feel as quickly flipping through a book in real life. Perhaps left/right arrow keys could work the same as scrolling.
Similarly, a key to use the loudspeaker would be a nice addition. Tab, Enter or Caps Lock (get it? you’re speaking loudly) come to mind. Less time forgetting the loudspeaker because it’s so out of place and more yelling at the people waiting in line just because you can.
Glory to Arstotzka.
#350 Prisoner416 (April 15, 2013 01:20 PM)
An interesting option would be to have a Julian Assange figure, trying to smuggle secrets across the border. Different turn-outs depending on you letting him go or detaining him.#351 melos han-tani (April 15, 2013 03:44 PM)
Quote from: mrbzzt on April 15, 2013, 10:35:04 AM I love the way the game uses mouse controls to give the feeling of actually handling physical objects. However, moving through a multi-page document or book feels clunky and unnatural.
It would be nice if the player could mouse scroll through a document or book under the cursor. Middle mouse click to go to be start of the document/book. Such interaction would have the same kind of feel as quickly flipping through a book in real life. Perhaps left/right arrow keys could work the same as scrolling.
Similarly, a key to use the loudspeaker would be a nice addition. Tab, Enter or Caps Lock (get it? you’re speaking loudly) come to mind. Less time forgetting the loudspeaker because it’s so out of place and more yelling at the people waiting in line just because you can.
Glory to Arstotzka.
I think it was mentioned earlier but part of the mouse interactions is to give that feeling of being flustered, so that clunkiness/unnaturalness works for the game - adding keyboard shortcuts might undermine that. In any case it’s Lucas’s call.
#352 harest (April 16, 2013 08:23 AM)
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/16/oh-yes-papers-please-is-a-communist-document-thriller/#more-149676#353 jO (April 16, 2013 08:31 AM)
About time they cover it! :beer!:#354 Belimoth (April 16, 2013 08:43 AM)
Also, it’s on Steam Greenlight right now, if all this communism has you itching to vote for something.
:tongue: Great article.
#355 April 16, 2013 08:49 AM
Quote from: harest on April 16, 2013, 08:23:19 AM http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/16/oh-yes-papers-please-is-a-communist-document-thriller/
Wow, couldn’t ask for a better article. Thanks RPS!
Maybe one day I can afford one of those insane background ads on there.
Replies
#356 melos han-tani (April 16, 2013 10:49 AM)
Quote from: dukope on April 16, 2013, 08:49:55 AM Quote from: harest on April 16, 2013, 08:23:19 AM http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/16/oh-yes-papers-please-is-a-communist-document-thriller/
Wow, couldn’t ask for a better article. Thanks RPS!
Maybe one day I can afford one of those insane background ads on there.
oh my god, they are so expensive…they sent me a package and Iwas like “oh sure that would be awes-” $20K FOR ONE WEEK HOMEPAGE AD
#357 Daza[NZ] (April 16, 2013 07:07 PM)
Quote from: dukope on November 16, 2012, 11:18:34 AM Quote from: zede05 on November 16, 2012, 10:39:12 AM Haha, nice concept. So the whole game will take place in one setting then?
More or less, yeah. There will be some activity in the border checkpoint area at the top, but most of the focus will be in the booth.
If the inspection gameplay works out ok, I’m also thinking of incorporating the contrary mode where you work as a smuggler/spy-chief/terrorist-leader for the enemy state. You’d be assigned tasks (“smuggle 20kg of bullets”), recruit agents to pass through the border, set them up with fake documents, hide contraband on their body (you know where), and send them through the checkpoint. I guess that would take place in a different setting.
A possible extension of that is to have player-created smugglers in the pool of travelers passing through player-controlled inspectors. And THAT… might make a half-decent play-by-day multiplayer game.
Just played your beta of your game. I liked it a lot. I hope you will seriously consider your thoughts (quotes above) and adding a MP component to your game. It could be a separately standalone version which players playing Passport Please can opt to be (online) allowing some people in the cue to actually be player sent characters. Perhaps getting a bonus for catching them since they are criminals, rebels or spies. Also the chance of them offering a large bribe. Which if taken, will be deemed suspicions if your family suddenly has all their needs met. Perhaps a random inspection of a players bank account could result in the firing squad if large amount anomalies are present.
Spy chief players could rankup and get access to better forgery tools.There could be an official scoreboard ingame and on the website that tallies how many spies or criminals have crossed over versus how many were caught. This could be a simple idea of US vs THEM. This could open up to a third standalone game tied into the other two, to do with morse code radio transmissions. Deciphering codes or messages, which in turn reveals spies identities or clues which are telegraphed to the border control. The PP players can use that info to catch the more difficult spies (who might have legit papers, but what he says doesn’t match the information gained from the decoders etc.)
A fourth game within this same world could be the cities themselves, and catching the spies who have made it across the borders. Some sort of top down view of a city like Atom Zombie Smasher. The player manages the secret police, a budget and resources. Interrogate the suspects, perhaps a decipher has a location clue. All these games have the same idea of trying to keep their family alive. All four games cross over. Granted this could get quite complicated. Anyway Ideas a free.
#358 Mirka (April 17, 2013 05:26 PM)
Glory to Arstotzka!I learned about this game in the fine RPS article and after playing the current beta, I registered only to come here and say:
Your game is brilliant.
And I love the music and sound effects. The way you implement it is magnificent and reminds me of Hotline Miami and Cart Life, both masters in doing this.
And I love the dystopia setting. Not many games do it right, and you do it.Now, I only have two requests:
Please, when you finish it, offer a DRM-free version via BTMicro, GOG or other distributor/portal. Your game already has some votes in GOG’s wishlist:
http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/papers_pleaseand please, go over the RPS article and read some comments. Some people have some awesome ideas on what you could implement.
(Also, congratulations to the Pioneers Dev too. I noticed he commented on the beginning of the thread and I learned about it the same way I learned about Papers, Please and I look forward to the game. And I also hope he give us a DRM-free version. Sorry for the hijacking, you can detain me now).
#359 fides5566 (April 17, 2013 06:47 PM)
Love your game, simple and fun!But I found a bug in day 6, the suicide bomber wasn’t show up which made the game continue forever. He appeared at first time but after I restarted that mission(made many mistakes), he never shows up again.
I tried to restart the game and restart my computer. Nothing fix that bug.
Or could you tell me where is a save file of this game? I will try to edit save file just for a work around.
#360 April 17, 2013 07:17 PM
Quote from: seagaia on April 16, 2013, 10:49:07 AM oh my god, they are so expensive…they sent me a package and Iwas like “oh sure that would be awes-” $20K FOR ONE WEEK HOMEPAGE AD
Get the eff out of here right now. 20,000 American dollars!? Although, given the absurd way that it completely dominates the entire page, MAYBE NOT SO BAD.
Quote from: Daza[NZ] on April 16, 2013, 07:07:51 PM Just played your beta of your game. I liked it a lot. I hope you will seriously consider your thoughts (quotes above) and adding a MP component to your game….Granted this could get quite complicated. Anyway Ideas a free.
Thanks, and yes. I’m still thinking about a multiplayer side to this, but definitely not for the first release.
Quote from: fides5566 on April 17, 2013, 06:47:36 PM Love your game, simple and fun!
But I found a bug in day 6, the suicide bomber wasn’t show up which made the game continue forever. He appeared at first time but after I restarted that mission(made many mistakes), he never shows up again.
I tried to restart the game and restart my computer. Nothing fix that bug.
Or could you tell me where is a save file of this game? I will try to edit save file just for a work around.
I need your help to fix this! This is a rare bug that’s affected a few people and I haven’t been able to track it down. I’ll PM you with some questions. :beg:
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#361 melos han-tani (April 17, 2013 07:51 PM)
Yeah, it is insane. Don’t Starve did it, I wonder how that worked out. It’s an interesting prospect, but something I wouldn’t ever risk unless I had far more capital…(Don’t starve has almost certainly made around or above $2 million, based on the “# of people liking this” number)
#362 April 18, 2013 08:06 AM
Sniping
(Ignore the double cursor. My only LICEcap complaint)
I wrestled for a while with how to handle the sniping. There were a brief few microseconds when I thought to cut it. Those moments passed without incident and now we’re left with this.
The Problem
The problem is that sniping with a mouse is way too easy. Previously I suggested it might change from a cross-hair to an aim-line or some other silly thing to increase the difficulty. Obviously that’s a terrible idea but I still wanted to make it harder.
Sorted It
So this is my solution. The sniping is still easy. What’s hard is getting the gun. It’s not just about moving your cursor up to the top any more. You have to be fast. In order to access a gun, you first need a key. You’ll get these through the course of the story. Once you’ve got a key, it sits on your desk wherever you put it, buried under the papers, unused. When the moment strikes, you’ll need to find the key on your desk, unlock the gun drawer using the key, select the gun, then shoot the runner/trespasser/enemy. If it sounds like a pain in the ass that’s because it is. It uses the same standard interface of paper shuffling and drag and drop, but with an extreme time limit. The level of panic is just right. By the time you get the gun out, there’s only a second or two to aim and shoot before the grenade is thrown.
Armaments
There’ll be just two guns, unlocked as the game progresses:
Tranquilizer rifle
- 3 rounds
- less precise aiming
- non-lethal drop in one hit (death animation above is wrong, it’ll be bloodless)
Sniper rifle
- 2 rounds
- precise reticule
- kills in one hit (bloody)
The tranquilize gun comes first so you’ll always have the option for non-lethal force.
Replies
#363 Panurge (April 18, 2013 08:18 AM)
Oh, that key idea is a stroke of genius. It ties the sniping in with the main game mechanic nicely.#364 DustyDrake (April 18, 2013 08:38 AM)
Can we shoot people in the crowd or the guard?
Perhaps if we’re bribed a certain amount…
#365 April 18, 2013 08:41 AM
Quote from: Panurge on April 18, 2013, 08:18:05 AM Oh, that key idea is a stroke of genius. It ties the sniping in with the main game mechanic nicely.
Pretty much the only reason I take a shower any more is to think about stuff like this.
Quote from: DustyDrake on April 18, 2013, 08:38:30 AM Can we shoot people in the crowd or the guard?
Perhaps if we’re bribed a certain amount…
SSSSSHHHHHHHHH! :droop:
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#366 tequibo (April 18, 2013 10:10 AM)
Finally got around playing it.
It’s neat, and very interesting, but on a day 3 I got a man who said “Here we go” on a “Papers, please” request but gave me no paprest. So we just stared at each other for some time. Then I have closed the shutter. Then opened it. Then I have tried to stamp night club ad and give it to him. Then I said that entry is not guaranteed on a megafon. Then work day was over, but me and the man stayed there. I have tried exitind to main menu and trying again, but the same man did the same thing, so I’m not sure if this is a bug, or was I’m supposed to do something else?
#367 April 18, 2013 10:13 AM
Quote from: tequibo on April 18, 2013, 10:10:03 AM Finally got around playing it.
It’s neat, and very interesting, but on a day 3 I got a man who said “Here we go” on a “Papers, please” request but gave me no paprest. So we just stared at each other for some time. Then I have closed the shutter. Then opened it. Then I have tried to stamp night club ad and give it to him. Then I said that entry is not guaranteed on a megafon. Then work day was over, but me and the man stayed there. I have tried exitind to main menu and trying again, but the same man did the same thing, so I’m not sure if this is a bug, or was I’m supposed to do something else?
Ok, you gotta help me out here. When you closed the shutter, it gives you a citation with instructions. Did you read these? Did you follow them? How much did you understand and how far did you follow this lead?
I added this extra hint (along with a post-it note on the bulletin) for beta 0.5.7 in the hopes to solve the roadblock here. But it still doesn’t work. I’d like to know which part is still failing because I’ve got to fix it for final.
Don’t feel bad, my design is still failing here and lots of people still miss this.
Replies
#368 team_q (April 18, 2013 10:20 AM)
I think it’s because you don’t need to spot out the differences with your booth software in order to successfully deny people entry. In order to get the special rejection slip, you have to use your detector to spot the differences, so you can get stuck if you have just been finding the errors visually, not calling them out and rejecting people. This method is what is taught at the start of the game. It happened to me the first time I played though as well.#369 tequibo (April 18, 2013 10:45 AM)
Ok, you gotta help me out here. When you closed the shutter, it gives you a citation with instructions. Did you read these? Did you follow them? How much did you understand and how far did you follow this lead?
I added this extra hint (along with a post-it note on the bulletin) for beta 0.5.7 in the hopes to solve the roadblock here. But it still doesn’t work. I’d like to know which part is still failing because I’ve got to fix it for final.
Don’t feel bad, my design is still failing here and lots of people still miss this.
Quote from: Eric McQuiggan on April 18, 2013, 10:20:16 AM I think it’s because you don’t need to spot out the differences with your booth software in order to successfully deny people entry. In order to get the special rejection slip, you have to use your detector to spot the differences, so you can get stuck if you have just been finding the errors visually, not calling them out and rejecting people. This method is what is taught at the start of the game. It happened to me the first time I played though as well.
Ohhh, I got it now.
Yeah, before that I checked rulebook, but I just overlooked that part. At the beginning of the day, when I first read it, I thought it is only about additional papers, and I did not highlighted it, as Erik said, I just stamped “deny”, but I did used highlight when there was wrong date.
I think I got confused because before this moment every time you accept or deny entry by stamping passport. And it’s sudden change in this main mechanic.
(on a side note, I wish I could stamp other papers too, without any affect on a gameplay, just for the sake of it)
#370 April 18, 2013 10:56 AM
Quote from: Eric McQuiggan on April 18, 2013, 10:20:16 AM I think it’s because you don’t need to spot out the differences with your booth software in order to successfully deny people entry.
…
It happened to me the first time I played though as well.
Quote from: tequibo on April 18, 2013, 10:45:16 AM Ohhh, I got it now.
…
I think I got confused because before this moment every time you accept or deny entry by stamping passport. And it’s sudden change in this main mechanic.
(on a side note, I wish I could stamp other papers too, without any affect on a gameplay, just for the sake of it)
Gotcha. Thanks for the info guys. I can see now that the leap at this moment from just stamping to being gated by inspection is too much. Citations and bulletin hints or not. Gonna put some more thought into how I can lower this barrier, smooth out this bump, and nail this metaphor.
Replies
#371 team_q (April 18, 2013 10:58 AM)
Or just have a slot with the slips on hand.#372 Comrade Beric (April 18, 2013 12:01 PM)
I don’t see why it matters how many people said no. 1% of the planet could say yes and everyone else say no, but that would still be 70 million copies sold, which is insanity. Logically, the pie chart is meaningless. What matters is how many people have said “Yes” and whether or not that number is high enough. 2,500+ people saw your game and clicked “Yes.” That’s 2,500 potential sales, just in the very limited Greenlight community. That’s what matters. I think you’re doing just fine.
I know I love the game. I found out about you from a random post about your comic relief guy on r/indiegaming and have been overjoyed with your title ever since.
#373 fallacy (April 18, 2013 10:13 PM)
Quote from: arkhometha on April 17, 2013, 05:26:14 PM Glory to Arstotzka!
I learned about this game in the fine RPS article and after playing the current beta, I registered only to come here and say:
Your game is brilliant.
And I love the music and sound effects. The way you implement it is magnificent and reminds me of Hotline Miami and Cart Life, both masters in doing this.
And I love the dystopia setting. Not many games do it right, and you do it.Now, I only have two requests:
Please, when you finish it, offer a DRM-free version via BTMicro, GOG or other distributor/portal. Your game already has some votes in GOG’s wishlist:
http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/papers_pleaseand please, go over the RPS article and read some comments. Some people have some awesome ideas on what you could implement.
(Also, congratulations to the Pioneers Dev too. I noticed he commented on the beginning of the thread and I learned about it the same way I learned about Papers, Please and I look forward to the game. And I also hope he give us a DRM-free version. Sorry for the hijacking, you can detain me now).
Glory to Arstotzka, comrade!
I too have voted in the gog wishlist. Also, I have top secret information. [email protected] is top secret email address. Use wisely, comrade, and GLORY TO ARSTOTZKA!
#374 pluckyporcupine (April 18, 2013 10:17 PM)
I’m still a bit iffy on the idea of sniping because it just feels like that doesn’t quite go with the job description BUT you have implemented it in a really clever way so I’m sure it’ll start to feel natural over time.EDIT: Also, to add to the conversation earlier, for me, by far, the hardest part about learning how to play was realizing that you could highlight entries in the rulebook to check for discrepancies. Due to the way the bulletins read, I started highlighting every discrepancy pretty much from the beginning, despite not being “required” to, as they mentioned earlier and that had taught me that it reveals things that you can’t catch just by looking at it. But I’m pretty sure I didn’t figure out the rulebook functionality on my own and that I had thought it was just a reference.
#375 E_FD (April 18, 2013 10:57 PM)
Hi,Found out about this game through RPS, really excited by it, registered here just so I could post some comments. (I’m playing the 0.5.7 build.)
-Difficulty: My first playthrough hit what I expect is supposed to be the ideal level; if I worked as fast as possible, I’d just barely manage to break even when paying for rent/heat/food/sometimes medicine, and occasionally make a little more. Which feels like it inspires just the right amount of panic to try to get through as many people as possible. By the second playthrough, when I was familiar with all the rules, I was building up a modest profit.
-The old man without the passport on the 3rd day flummoxed me, and I had to do a search online to find my way past him. Looks like a lot of people have had the same problem; I think there are a couple problems that make this one confusing: First, it’s the first case we meet where we have to use the investigate function on the rulebook. Before this, we could just spot the errors visually and deny the passport, or use the investigate button on, say, the person and their passprot photo or indicated gender to notice a discrepancy. Second, using the investigate button to click on the empty desk to represent that he’s passportless really feels unintuitive; it’s not something I would’ve ever guessed to do if I hadn’t looked up the solution on the web.
My suggestion would be to make the Temporary Visa Slip used for denials available all the time, maybe in a stack at the end of the desk, so that we can deny people without passports without having to puzzle out the steps the game wants us to take to identify their lack of passports, even though it’s immediately visually obvious.
-Finally, I noticed it mentioned a few pages ago, but about an earlier build, so I’ll just point out that this is still in: When denying entry to the brothel owner/human trafficker, I get a citation that reads “Brothel help invalid”. Also, I don’t know if this is deliberate, but even after denying him, the newspaper article the next day mentions the girls being murdered or something to that effect. I’d gotten the impression that I could have prevented this just by denying him entry; is it supposed to be necessary to detain him?
That’s everything. Love the concept, love the visual style. Congrats on producing such a unique, engaging game!
#376 barley (April 18, 2013 11:41 PM)
Quote from: E_FD on April 18, 2013, 10:57:48 PM -Finally, I noticed it mentioned a few pages ago, but about an earlier build, so I’ll just point out that this is still in: When denying entry to the brothel owner/human trafficker, I get a citation that reads “Brothel help invalid”. Also, I don’t know if this is deliberate, but even after denying him, the newspaper article the next day mentions the girls being murdered or something to that effect. I’d gotten the impression that I could have prevented this just by denying him entry; is it supposed to be necessary to detain him?the way I saw this was that he was in charge of a ring of people forcing women into prostitution and that if you deny him the ring keeps working (and he can run it from outside the country) but if you detain him he can be interrogated and the ring can be shut down
#377 Comrade Beric (April 19, 2013 12:52 AM)
I actually do have a single simple suggestion. I know that the game is meant to feel like you’re shuffling around papers in a panic, and it works really well for that purpose. The only time it doesn’t make as much sense is at the end. When you’re giving all of a person’s paperwork back to them, I can imagine a guard just scooping them up and handing them back, as opposed to giving them each one at a time. I was thinking perhaps the right mouse button could be used as a “scoop” option in which every document you wave your mouse over gets dragged. Including the rulebook, citations, etc. I mean, if you’re going to be scooping this stuff, it behooves you to try to stay organized on your desk, otherwise you’ll end up catching everything when you’re just trying to give the person back their papers. Also, doing it this way, I think, preserves the panicked feel of shuffling papers because it’s really only useful during that one moment at the end when you’re just trying to get rid of the papers. Moving them all onto your desk like that doesn’t help much because they’re all stacked on top of each other and you’ll still have to separate them to check names and whatnot.#378 Crunchepillar (April 19, 2013 02:32 AM)
Hi. I was doing a run where I just deny everyone except cobrastan and people that are ballsy enough to walk up without a passport and I got a bunch of writeups for denying people that aren’t supposed to be, which is expected of course, but on the third day I got a writeup for “Invalid News0” and “Invalid News1” after denying the third or fourth person in a row.#379 Karachokarl (April 19, 2013 03:10 AM)
I think that’s because you let a suspected murder through. If you read the news, there’s a guy wanted for murder, whom you probably didn’t check properly?Interestingly enough, you can find out that he is a wanted criminal, but then just deny him entry anyway without detaining him and without getting a penalty for not doing so.
#380 Sar (April 19, 2013 05:23 AM)
Quote from: E_FD on April 18, 2013, 10:57:48 PM -The old man without the passport on the 3rd day flummoxed me, and I had to do a search online to find my way past him. Looks like a lot of people have had the same problem;
…
Second, using the investigate button to click on the empty desk to represent that he’s passportless really feels unintuitive; it’s not something I would’ve ever guessed to do if I hadn’t looked up the solution on the web.Maybe I’m mis-remembering, but isn’t that exact thing in part of the instructions in the game itself? I seem to recall reading one of the beginning-of-the-day letters which said something to that effect.
#381 April 19, 2013 05:52 AM
@Comrade Beric
Thanks! And yeah, the percentages don’t really matter. Valve just likes to dump a bunch of stats onto the author’s Greenlight page. It’s nice for the curious, but Greenlight doesn’t even do approvals on a strict stat ranking.
@Crunchepillar
That sounds like a crazy bug. Gonna look into that one. The “deny everyone” or “approve everyone” technique will get fixed. More than 5 citations or so on one day will be a game over.
@E_FD
The “Brothel help invalid” thing is fixed in my dev builds, but beta 0.5.7 is just a few tweaks to 0.5.5 and doesn’t have that fix.
@Comrade Beric
Thank you for the suggestion but I’m probably not going to add a special button or technique just for returning papers. At least, not right now. I’ll think about it for a bit. Although it sounds kinda cool at first, I want to avoid adding a right-click-drag function for this one feature.
Pimp Arrest
You need to arrest the pimp to save the girls (talking about the dev builds). Otherwise he calls up his homies and they kill everyone. Denying will also penalize since his papers are in order.
The Missing Docs
Thanks johnki & E_FD for the extra explanations. As Sar says, there are explicit instructions in the bulletin:
But the problem is the conceptual change from:
Get the docs, check em out, inspect docs for fun
to:
Get nothing, inspect certain rulebook rule to proceed
Some people make this leap no problem. For others it’s so far off the radar as to be nonexistent. It even looks like a bug and once that happens, brain over. I’m working out a way to fix it for everyone. Fun challenge actually.
Replies
#382 Stereotomy (April 19, 2013 06:04 AM)
Fantastic game! The trailer is incredibly effective, and you’ve done a great job of making something original and entertaining. Love the art style and the music.So, a few of my own thoughts on this (pretty spoilerific):
-Inevitably, some reviewers are going to talk about how the game mechanics undermine some of the ‘difficult choices’ you have to make. For example, why worry about getting one warning for letting the wife without a pass in? Unless you’re doing badly, it’s not going to cost you anything.
But actually, I think this is a feature rather than a bug. One thing you’ll hear from people who have worked in places likes the ones being parodied here is that people will always find a way to work exactly within the letter, not the spirit, of the rules. The way you can, right near the end of the day, start stamping at random to get more pay if you haven’t had any warnings fits in with this too.
Of course there could potentially be gameplay balance issues with the mechanic, but certainly I don’t think it takes away from the experience. It lends itself easily to a difficulty setting too.-The other side of that coin is that it’s a problem when doing something has no gameplay consequences. Letting the trafficker or the suspected murderer through doesn’t lose me anything, and in fact I never have a reason to detail rather than deny (as far as I can tell). You seem to be setting up some kind of pseudo-achievement system with the medals, and there are effects in the news the next day, which I suppose might cover the individual characters, but there really needs to be something to make me hit ‘detain’, or at least some resaon to consider it.
-An actual gameplay issue is that nobody ever has more than one potentially dodgy feature in their documents. What this means is that, for example, if somebody doesn’t give me a document I need, I highlight the discrepancy and they give it to me, I now instantly know that there won’t be any other discrepancies and I can let them through without bothering to read any of their details.
-It’s a bit weird that I have to take somebody’s fingerprints when they claim to have two names, as the fingerprints are actually irrelevant.
-This will probably get more explained in the full version but what’s the logic behind the medals? I get one for letting a woman with a pretty convincing sob story through, but I also get one for letting the crazy old guy with the fake passport through.
-I don’t have much sympathy for the people getting stuck on the old guy day 3. It does say in the rules what to do in that situation, and you’ve put in an extra hint. On the other hand, they’re the ones who are going to walk away thinking the game is bugged, which isn’t good for you.
I think somebody said it before but probably the best way to deal with this is to make sure you have to highlight a missing document discrepancy before this. Maybe a missing ticket which would be provided on asking. Then the warning you receive for denying the person (if you don’t ask for the ticket) can remind you to check the daily memo for what to do in that situation.#383 Hempuli‽ (April 19, 2013 06:43 AM)
I just tried this out of whim, but man, this game is fantastic so far! I love how the awkwardness of the controls adds to the overall experience; there’s some really cool atmosphere going on here!#384 fleur (April 19, 2013 07:49 AM)
Ever since I discovered this I’ve been absolutely enthralled by the concept. It’s a fantastic idea, fantastically implemented. I showed this to my aunt who grew up under communism and she agrees that it does a very good job of goading you into the mood and attitude prevalent in that era. It got especially poignant when she started half-assing the job out of a concern for her family (stamping nowhere near the stamp area.) It really hit close to home.Looking through this thread, I am wondering why the player must get a rifle, necessarily? It is a minor quibble, but I feel it would damage my suspension of disbelief. Like others have said, giving a sniper rifle to a civil servant of all people is a bit far fetched, especially considering how there’s plenty of military personnel around and how cramped that booth is.
Why not have a pair of pistols? It would make sense as something issued for self-defense, and add to the panic with the idea that this is a last-ditch attempt at avoiding an incident rather than a daily part of the job. More verisimilitude is always a good thing in my book.
Best of luck with the Greenlight! You certainly have my vote.
#385 zede05 (April 19, 2013 09:30 AM)
You know dukope, I never expected a game based on one setting nowadays to be able to convey so much. You’ve really captured a bit of the nostalgic magic from the late 80s/early 90s PC games for me. Awesome job! And I wish you great success on Greenlight!Are you going to release this on mobile as well?
#386 Comrade Beric (April 19, 2013 03:14 PM)
Quote from: dukope on April 19, 2013, 05:52:33 AM @Comrade Beric
Thank you for the suggestion but I’m probably not going to add a special button or technique just for returning papers. At least, not right now. I’ll think about it for a bit. Although it sounds kinda cool at first, I want to avoid adding a right-click-drag function for this one feature.
Fair enough. After thinking about it some more, the idea might be alright, but adding another button to the game might be cumbersome. Besides, if you ever plan on making the game an iOS or Android title, right-clicking would be impossible, so you’d have to remove it for their versions. I’ll just have to cope with giving back a person’s paperwork one piece at a time.(damn bureaucracy never making my job any easier… they promised to get a second booth to help me with this line, too… *grumble grumble grumble*)
Quote from: John Sandoval on April 19, 2013, 01:04:53 PM feedback: it wasn’t clear to me till about day 5 that i had to/was able to feed my family; i just assumed that their starvation was inevitable and some sort of political commentary
This happened to myself as well, by the way. It wasn’t until the second playthrough of the demo that I realized that my work has a direct effect on my finances. Point of fact, I’m still unsure of exactly how I get paid. Is it by number of people processed period minus penalties, or is it only the number of people I correctly accept/deny? Because if it is the former, that makes Mr. Safadi’s bribe more tempting, because if allowing him to come in counts towards my pay, then I’m getting 10 instead of 5 for processing him, as long as I don’t mess up two more times today. If my pay only counts those I am correct about, then I’m getting $5 either way, I may as well just do my job and avoid getting closer to a penalty. The game doesn’t make it very clear which way that works.#387 Stereotomy (April 19, 2013 03:39 PM)
Few more small bugs:-Safadi still gave me his bribe when I skipped searching him altogether.
-Strangely I seemed to get warned for turning away the guy who handed me the EZIC card, even though he leaves automatically. The previous person I had just detained after he gave me a pass with no seal. First time that bug has occurred for me.
-You may already be aware but the penalty notices don’t seem to correctly tell you how much the penalty actually is. First one says 10 when it’s actually 5.
#388 Blademasterbobo (April 19, 2013 05:41 PM)
this game is awesome. i tried it out on a touchscreen device, and it works really well with touch. (unsurprisingly.) there was a bug where the cursor wouldn’t line up in fullscreen (maximized it in windowed mode instead), but that’s probably the tablet’s fault. you should consider throwin’ it on ipod / the msoft appstore / android / etc, if you haven’t already.edit: it seems like when it’s windowed, it uses the absolute mouse position, and when it’s fullscreen, it uses relative positions, which doesn’t work for the touch screen
#389 Mirka (April 19, 2013 05:50 PM)
Quote from: johnki on April 18, 2013, 10:17:34 PM I’m still a bit iffy on the idea of sniping because it just feels like that doesn’t quite go with the job description BUT you have implemented it in a really clever way so I’m sure it’ll start to feel natural over time.
Agreed. Though as he said, the way you implement it seems cool. Still, do the guy have a training with rifles?Quote from: johnki on April 18, 2013, 10:17:34 PM ´
EDIT: Also, to add to the conversation earlier, for me, by far, the hardest part about learning how to play was realizing that you could highlight entries in the rulebook to check for discrepancies. Due to the way the bulletins read, I started highlighting every discrepancy pretty much from the beginning, despite not being “required” to, as they mentioned earlier and that had taught me that it reveals things that you can’t catch just by looking at it. But I’m pretty sure I didn’t figure out the rulebook functionality on my own and that I had thought it was just a reference.
I echo this. I had the same problem and I got stuck in that guy with no passport in day 3 until I realized I had to ask for his passport by linking the rule in the rulebook to him.Quote from: barley on April 18, 2013, 11:41:13 PM the way I saw this was that he was in charge of a ring of people forcing women into prostitution and that if you deny him the ring keeps working (and he can run it from outside the country) but if you detain him he can be interrogated and the ring can be shut down
I detained him and the newspaper gave me he the ringleader was arrested but the girls still died. I thought the blame was on me.Quote from: Stereotomy on April 19, 2013, 03:39:43 PM Few more small bugs:
-Safadi still gave me his bribe when I skipped searching him altogether.
I also had this bug.#390 ogto (April 20, 2013 12:03 AM)
Suggestion, instead of having 5 citations end the game, how about a 3 citation system, in which the 3rd citation is a CASH penalty and the fourth one the day is over. Cause that’s the biggest penalty, right? Getting sent home with not enough money to look after your family.This game is friggin awesome, I’d pay for it. How long do you think the final campaign will be?
#391 MegaScience (April 20, 2013 11:03 AM)
So the Twitter account associated with the developers of The Stanley Parable was praising the game: https://twitter.com/HelloCakebread/status/325625980918067200#392 Bishop (April 21, 2013 08:09 AM)
Quote from: dukope on April 18, 2013, 10:13:20 AM Quote from: tequibo on April 18, 2013, 10:10:03 AM Finally got around playing it.
It’s neat, and very interesting, but on a day 3 I got a man who said “Here we go” on a “Papers, please” request but gave me no paprest. So we just stared at each other for some time. Then I have closed the shutter. Then opened it. Then I have tried to stamp night club ad and give it to him. Then I said that entry is not guaranteed on a megafon. Then work day was over, but me and the man stayed there. I have tried exitind to main menu and trying again, but the same man did the same thing, so I’m not sure if this is a bug, or was I’m supposed to do something else?Ok, you gotta help me out here. When you closed the shutter, it gives you a citation with instructions. Did you read these? Did you follow them? How much did you understand and how far did you follow this lead?
I added this extra hint (along with a post-it note on the bulletin) for beta 0.5.7 in the hopes to solve the roadblock here. But it still doesn’t work. I’d like to know which part is still failing because I’ve got to fix it for final.
Don’t feel bad, my design is still failing here and lots of people still miss this.
I got stuck here too. First time he was talking too much for my liking and quickly snapped the shuttered down. The bulletin came in saying I was confused, to read the rule book and work harder. I still don’t understand the solution. Day just ended eventually and he still didn’t leave.
Edit: never mind, I didn’t properly read the memo! lol. Got the end, great game!
#393 Quarry (April 21, 2013 10:24 PM)
#394 gimymblert (April 21, 2013 10:47 PM)
wow awesome video :shocked: Glory to ARSTOTZKA#395 Quarry (April 21, 2013 11:24 PM)
This game reveals the buried patriotism hidden inside people#396 Svetlana (April 22, 2013 09:51 AM)
this game is amazingly well made and very challenging
i have submitted name for glorious arstotzkan leadersxoxoxo call me,
-Svetlana#397 Hempuli‽ (April 22, 2013 01:09 PM)
I think this quote from the RPS comments describes the mentality of Arstotzka fantastically:“They key to a good family life is understanding that your beloved only need heat and food every other day.”
#398 crazysam (April 22, 2013 03:26 PM)
Hey, I’m currently using HaxeFlixel for my game development needs, and I’m super impressed by the stability of your project (at least the windows build). Can you share how you handled full screen / windowed switching and most importantly, window resizing?Thanks a bunch!
Great work by the way, I supported you on Steam Greenlight :)#399 kc1991 (April 22, 2013 04:01 PM)
I have 2 bugs:
- In windowed mode i have error - “Error in music Couldn’t open” (win7 x64)
- When you want to play 9 day it crash all application (yes I know that is only 8 days now).
But, this game is great and i’m waiting for next updates.
#400 Arhemont (April 22, 2013 06:16 PM)
Quote from: dukope on April 19, 2013, 05:52:33 AM Pimp Arrest
You need to arrest the pimp to save the girls (talking about the dev builds). Otherwise he calls up his homies and they kill everyone. Denying will also penalize since his papers are in order.I find the bug where even when I arrested him, the newspaper still wrote that the girls got killed, one of the best things in the game. It got me thinking what could I have done:
- “APPROVED”
- Girl and her sister become prostitutes
- Prostitution chain is alive
- More money for my family
- “DENIED”
- Girl and her sister manage to escape their fate of becoming prostitutes
- Prostitution chain is alive
- Less money for my family
- “INTERROGATION/DETENTION”
- Girls get killed as a revenge from his buddies since my transcript is the key evidence
- Prostitution chain is broken
- More money for my family
So basically all the actions are wrong. Whatever you do there will never be a happy end and someone will always get hurt. I find this to perfectly fit the ambient of Arstotzka. I would love to see this principle implemented in all of the stories.
In future versions I would like for the newspapers to be expanded. Nothing big, headline + lead paragraph + pictures characters involved. That way the story about the pimp case could be more elaborated. But you could also be aware of others consequences of your decisions. For example for the guy who was hiding pills there can be a story about a xy from country x who had died after having a seizure while being in detention.
Another thing I would like to see, and that I think fits the ambient, is the bribe option. But don’t do it in a form of a “bride” button. Instead, make some button that shuts down the transcript machine, and then you character would say something like “I would really like to help you but…”, the emigrant would then:
- Neutral immigrant: do nothing.
- Somebody who is obliviously in a life threatening situation: offer bribe
- Somebody who is obliviously every evil: offer bribe
Some ideas for the ending in regards of strategies.
You get adjectives and one depending on the summary of your actions. After every immigrant is dealt with, you get different types of positive or negative points.
Depending on do you fallow or disregard the procedure and rules. A sign of are you a loyal subject of Arstotzka (this isn’t really about do you make much mistakes or not since this is already penalized with money you earn but it deals with cases when you can do something illegal consciously: accepting bribe, approving entry to people after you have confronted them with why their papers aren’t good, not detaining people…)
LOYAL
DISLOYALDepending what consequences do you create for people at your counter (Again, all this is make only after confronting somebody about something that is wrong. For example, the guy with the pills: letting him into the country +4, letting him into the country and asking him for bribe 4-2=+2, detaining him -4, asking him from bribe and detaining him -4-2=-6.
KINDHEARTED
COLDBLOODED
EVILDepending on your final bank account
RICH
POORDepending on how did your family members count
FAMILY MAN
LONELY MANSpecials:
PERVERT: unnecessary forcing people to take body screens and asking young girls for sex in order to let them in.
RACIST: unnecessary denying entrance to non-Caucasians
TERRORIST: letting bombers in after you confronted them with brining bombs in
…#401 Lt_Commander (April 22, 2013 06:40 PM)
I really enjoyed the beta, I can’t wait to see it get the greenlight.Anyway, I was told that I should post these here.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21161113/passport-please.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21161113/passport-please-cobrastan.jpgI’d have more, but making state seals is a pain, even with dodgy linework.
#402 gimymblert (April 22, 2013 07:01 PM)
Oké, here what i have to say, and it’s controversial:
Make it a facebook game with the ability to denied/pass friend inside the country :tongue: i’m serious, i want to see this game everywhere, and especially on facebook. It totally counter all the zynga crap there… :who, me?:
#403 April 22, 2013 10:37 PM
Suddenly, Mods
If you’ve poked around in any of the beta’s asset directories, you may know that all the game’s assets are editable. Part of this is because Haxe/NME doesn’t have an asset packaging system built in. Part of it is because I thought it would be cool if people could see how the game was set up.
While I never planned it, people have already started modding the game. This is a weird feeling for a game creator; especially when the game isn’t done yet. There are some cool mods and some tasteless ones. Given the game’s subject matter, this isn’t surprising.
For the latest beta, I decided to address the issue. There were two options:
1. Lock down the assets and prevent modding
2. Support mods properly
I first implemented #1. That meant writing a build process to bundle/encrypt the assets and an in-game module to load/decrypt them. Haxe/NME made this amazingly easy and it really drove home the power of the language and tools.
I was pretty set with that when I came to my senses. Once the assets are out (as in the previous betas), it makes no sense to suddenly lock them down. It’s a dick move, even. If I liked a game enough to spend my time modding it, I’d be pretty pissed if the next build disabled mods. Even if they were unofficial. I got my start in games with Quake mods and have some understanding of the effort and devotion that goes into modding.
Ok, so I decided #2 was a better choice in the end. At least for the pre-release builds.
Proper Support
Adding proper mod support wasn’t that hard. There are 3 important things in my opinion:
1. Make them easy to distribute
Again, Haxe/NME pulled through here. There’s a great exsiting api to extract zip files in Haxe. Using that lets modders zip up their asset directory into one nice .ppmod file that’s easy to download. A .ppmod can by played by saving it next to PapersPlease.exe and drag+dropping it onto the executable.
2. Don’t require overwriting original assets
The currently available mods are basically just a zip file of the entire beta, including the exe and all (edited) assets. This is wasteful and unsafe. I know I’m less likely to run a strange exe than I am to run an asset-only mod. Working over the original files is also a painful way to develop a mod and it’s better to have a set of “override” assets instead. This allows including only the edited assets in a mod, which increases the likelihood that it’ll work across multiple versions of the game.
3. Assign visible credit
This is the most important for me and there are two parts. First, it has to be clear that I didn’t create the modded content. This is especially true when someone makes a tasteless mod. I don’t want people to make a connection when seeing one of those and “Created by Lucas Pope” on the title screen. Second, good mods are a lot of work. If someone puts in the time and effort to make a mod, I want them to get credit. When running the latest beta, the game displays the mod name/author on the title screen and links to the author’s website.
Reaction
We’ll see. Even with a more complete modding system, it takes a few additional steps to create a mod now. Some people are already complaining about this so I guess you can’t win sometimes.
Hopefully a few good mods come out of this, but for now I’m turning my focus back to finishing the game.
Replies
#404 melos han-tani (April 23, 2013 12:07 AM)
Hey, could you document how you did encrypt the assets with #1?#405 xclpr (April 23, 2013 08:06 AM)
An idea.
#406 DustyDrake (April 23, 2013 02:39 PM)
Nerd Cubed did a video about this too:#407 melos han-tani (April 23, 2013 03:01 PM)
i smell victory in your future.#408 gimymblert (April 23, 2013 03:12 PM)
yep this game has a perfect timing, it’s fun, it’s new, it deal with complex matter, it’s mechanically sounds and narratively sound, it taps in modern imagination, it feels personal, it’s a modern game in all aspects, it’s a winner#409 Impmaster (April 23, 2013 06:40 PM)
I played this and it is one of the most original games I have played in a while. I did note a few complaints though. First of all, I didn’t realize how the end of day thing worked until it told me I had to save my son. I also didn’t understand how I got money. And most of all, I need censoring in the strip search portions. Bit odd playing that around my friends.Overall, it’s great though. I placed in my german friend’s name in the tally, and I hope to see a Kenneth Tagscherer in someday. :tongue:
#410 kleiba (April 23, 2013 09:57 PM)
I believe not having censored strip search pictures is crucial to this game.#411 DannySpud (April 23, 2013 11:22 PM)
I downloaded this game after seeing Nerd3’s video on it. It’s really good! A couple of things bugged me while playing though (I haven’t read anything on here, if this has all been covered then ignore me).
The omniscient supervisors make my “job” feel pointless. If they know I let someone through who shouldn’t have then what’s the point of me checking myself? Also if I get caught every time then I never have a reason to give someone the benefit of the doubt.
The way I’d love it to work in an ideal world is that every person with incorrect papers has a chance to be either a genuine mistake, a terrorist/agent/smuggler or a government plant to check on you. Rather than knowing whether you got it correct or not, letting terrorists through increases the amount of terrorist attacks reported in the news (giving a chance that one of your family will be killed or injured), attacks that happen at the border (shutting down the border early so you get less money) and increasing the security checks you have to do (taking more time per person so you earn less money). Letting through government “secret shoppers” gives harsh fines, letting through innocent mistakes does nothing.
This way the player has a direct impact on the country.Another little annoyance was that there’s no point detaining anyone as its far quicker to deny entry.
By the way please don’t remove the nudity in the scanning like some people want. That creepiness you get from it is perfect.
Sorry for rambling, I really like the concept of this game and it fired my imagination a bit.
#412 barley (April 23, 2013 11:35 PM)
Censoring could maybe be optional? I really don’t think it should be censored, since it wouldn’t be feasible for the pictures to be censored in between them being taken and them getting to you, and it makes it kind of morbid.But obviously some people are bothered by it (even though they really aren’t very detailed), so if it was just a checkbox in the options menu that defaulted to off, that’d make everybody happy.
#413 April 23, 2013 11:38 PM
Quote from: barley on April 23, 2013, 11:35:12 PM But obviously some people are bothered by it (even though they really aren’t very detailed), so if it was just a checkbox in the options menu that defaulted to off, that’d make everybody happy.
This is exactly how it’s handled now.
In general, I’ll sacrifice message for practicality but it does default to ‘on’.
Replies
#414 barley (April 23, 2013 11:42 PM)
Oh, good. Yeah, I definitely agree with that.#415 szron (April 23, 2013 11:46 PM)
First of all. I freaking love the game. Being an actual immigrant and having to go through this all in real life makes the possibility to be on the other side of the stamp is awesome.I have a fetish for details and realism. Of course by no means I want to sacrifice gameplay for useless playability but I have few ideas that might add some complexity.
1. Pages of a passport, visas
Possibility to flip pages in a passport, analyze past entries, see if an entrant has a visa in his passport (usually a page sized sticker http://www.pinoy-ofw.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/us-visa.jpg here’s an actual USSR tourist visa http://www.flickr.com/photos/zaruka/2496252484/).2. Computer system
I know we are in Orwellan 1980s but I think this would fit. “Old-school-green-text-terminal-style” computer to look up people, visas, permit, entry history.3. “Secondary”
Make detaining easier and allow for secondary inspection where we get to interrogate the entrant. If his story checks out you might let him go and if not you can lock him up.I’m just spitballing here but I hope that you will like at least some of those ideas.
Keep up the good work and you’ll make this a CBP training software :D
#416 Armageddon (April 23, 2013 11:59 PM)
I think flipping pages on passports might make it a little too complicated, at least early on. And the green text computer terminals sort of clash with the color scheme. Also I thought it was 1960s?#417 szron (April 24, 2013 12:00 AM)
Quote from: Armageddon on April 23, 2013, 11:59:21 PM And the green text computer terminals sort of clash with the color scheme.Make it amber :wink:
Quote from: Armageddon on April 23, 2013, 11:59:21 PM Also I thought it was 1960s?Check the date on the calendar#418 SoulSharer (April 24, 2013 06:08 AM)
This game is great, thumbs up in Steam is all yours. Good job, sir. :gentleman:#419 whyareall (April 24, 2013 06:09 AM)
A suggestion that someone made a while back that didn’t seem to get notice was right clicking for discrepancies, instead of having to pull up the big, screen-covering thing that blocks you from moving documents around and wastes time when you have to take it down to move the documents around and put it back up#420 SliceOfDog (April 24, 2013 07:11 AM)
Hey, fantastic game, really enjoyed playing through it and will definitely be coming back to play later iterations. However, I noticed one potential flaw when I did a second, purposely silly playthrough. After playing through all 8 levels properly, I decided to play again and, no matter what, I would instantly reject every single person. I just thought it would be mildly amusing for a level or two, and was curious to see what would happen if I kept doing a terrible job (if there was a “you got fired, game over” mechanic, for example).To my surprise, rejecting every potential immigrant as quickly as possible seems to be the best career choice our protagonist ever made. We get 5 credits for every immigrant we deal with, and since we get several warnings before being fined for misconduct, and the fines are only 10 credits, you can actually earn a LOT more money by instantly rejecting everyone (or possibly also by instantly accepting everyone) than you ever could by taking your time and playing it properly. In my first, real run of the game, I managed to have an average of about 5 and 20 credits savings, and that included not paying for heat every second level. In my Reject Everyone run, I managed to get to 70 credits savings, including food and heat every time, by level 4.
I’m not sure if this is actually a concern, because it basically only applies to people who are playing very badly, but it seems like it shouldn’t be hard to fix. I would suggest one of three things:
You do NOT get paid the 5 credits for getting an applicant wrong. If I’m getting fined and still earning money, the fining system alone probably isn’t harsh enough.
You still get paid for dealing with them, but the fines steadily increase.
Currently, each level you get 2 or 3 free warnings before you start getting fined. You could limit the player to 3 warnings per GAME instead of per level, or only have 1 warning per level (after level 1)
Hope this all makes sense.
(Also, completely agree with Whyareall. It was a little irritating sometimes having to flick through the book when I already knew exactly what documents they were missing. You could also have a small list to the side that shows which documents are required?)
#421 whyareall (April 24, 2013 07:15 AM)
Quote from: SliceOfDog on April 24, 2013, 07:11:19 AM (Also, completely agree with Whyareall. It was a little irritating sometimes having to flick through the book when I already knew exactly what documents they were missing. You could also have a small list to the side that shows which documents are required?)
I wasn’t saying have the rulebook pinned up, I was saying replace clicking on the lower right hand red button and its interface by just right clicking two things to point out discrepancies
#422 SliceOfDog (April 24, 2013 08:00 AM)
I wasn’t saying have the rulebook pinned up, I was saying replace clicking on the lower right hand red button and its interface by just right clicking two things to point out discrepancies
I know, but pinning up a smaller version of just those first pages is another possibility, that’s all. I don’t mean keeping the whole rulebook there, but a small list might work if adding a right-click function isn’t to Dukope’s fancy.#423 erikchan002 (April 24, 2013 08:45 AM)
The game is fantastic. Though there’s some minor bugs(0.5.11) I found after a few play-throughs.
- The date on both chops stay at 1982.11.23 even after the 23rd.
- If you press continue after the end of beta the game crashes. I don’t think this problem will still be there after the release.
- If you chop both chops that person gets denied. Not sure if intended. No way to amend if the wrong one is chopped.
Also I think having more keyboard short-cuts would be good, as only space is used currently(again, 0.5.11). Maybe a key for calling the next person in-line?
I don’t really like the idea of pinning up the rule book or other things, even a small part of them. I think it would be nice to let the players feel panicked when they have a lot of stuff on their desk and have to move them around quickly. Learning how to manage my desk properly is part of the game for me.
Right-clicking may help but I’m fine with space-clicking.
#424 April 24, 2013 09:49 AM
Thanks to everybody for the comments. I’m gonna dump a huge response here. It’s getting harder and harder to respond to people individually as the game gets more exposure. This is a problem I always wished to have :)
fleur: Looking through this thread, I am wondering why the player must get a rifle, necessarily?
It’s a gameplay thing that I’m stubbornly attached to. That’s basically all there is to it. I haven’t finished integrating it though, so it may still be cut if I find it doesn’t work.
zede: Are you going to release this on mobile as well?
I’m plotting it. After PC/Mac, and likely only iPad due to the size constraints.
John Sandoval: it wasn’t clear to me till about day 5 that i had to/was able to feed my family
I’ve added a message about this on the first day’s night screen. (final branch only, not in betas)
Comrade Beric: Point of fact, I’m still unsure of exactly how I get paid.
Yeah the game is intentionally vague about this. And a lot of other things I guess. I may put a small number on the night screen somewhere to incidate how many people you processed. With that it’ll be possible to deduce (without being told directly) how the money is awarded.
arkhometha: I detained him [the pimp] and the newspaper gave me he the ringleader was arrested but the girls still died. I thought the blame was on me.
Are you sure about this? There are two exclusive scenarios:
- Detain him and get this news:
@ News Human Trafficking Ring Shut Down! \ Grestin Checkpoint Officer Nabs Mastermind \ Face:M-11-12-8-5 - Approve/Deny him and get this news:
@ News Dancers At Grestin Club Found Dead! \ Newly Immigrated Girls Victims Of Human Trafficking
Are you saying you saw both pieces of news after detaining him?
crazysam: Can you share how you handled full screen / windowed switching and most importantly, window resizing?
There is a top-level sprite (child of the stage) that contains all the display objects and handles the resize message:
public static var kPixelWidth = 570;
public static var kPixelHeight = 320;
...
private function applySizing()
{
...
// choose resMult to fit stage size
var mult = 1;
while (true)
{
if (kPixelWidth\*(mult+1) > stageWidth) break;
if (kPixelHeight\*(mult+1) > stageHeight) break;
mult++;
}
resMult = mult;
scaleX = mult;
scaleY = mult;
x = (stageWidth - kPixelWidth\*scaleX)/2;
y = (stageHeight - kPixelHeight\*scaleY)/2
...
}
That puts the play area in the center of the screen at the highest possible whole-pixel scale. This often doesn’t fill the screen, so there’s also a set of 4 black bitmaps (also children of the stage) arranged around the play area to mask it.
Arhemont: So basically all the actions are wrong. … I would love to see this principle implemented in all of the stories.
Heh, I’m probably not going to take the moral pain that far.
Lt_Commander: [Sweet fanart]
Awesome!
Gimym TILBERT: Make it a facebook game…
Stop right there.
seagaia: Hey, could you document how you did encrypt the assets with #1
I can give you the gist but obviously not all the details. It’ll take some time though. Remind me in a PM.
xclpr: [idea]
That sounds kinda cool, but the game is mostly mapped out in my head and such a feature doesn’t fit well with what I have planned.
DannySpud: The omniscient supervisors make my “job” feel pointless.
I understand this point of view, but without the immediate citations the game is broken and unfun. You can try the alpha build to see for yourself. In that version you are cited but it doesn’t list the actual mistake. There are some posts earlier in the devlog discussing it. I’ll address the “inspector inspector” at some point in-game.
szron: Pages of a passport … Computer system … “Secondary” …
I originally envisioned checking previous VISAs but, as Armageddon said, felt the complexity wasn’t worth it. Also, the game originally did have a computer telex system for getting information from the Ministry of Admission. It was cut a pretty long time ago. I think there are a few devlog posts about it but the summary is that it wasn’t needed after I implemented the current fingerprinting system. Finally, I think a 2nd round of interrogation would slow the game down too much.
whyareall: A suggestion that someone made a while back that didn’t seem to get notice was right clicking for discrepancies, instead of having to pull up the big, screen-covering thing that blocks you from moving documents around and wastes time.
That was my suggestion :). It would just be a shortcut for entering inspect mode and selecting with one click. Inspecting will always be a separate mode where you can’t move the documents. I haven’t implemented it yet because it’s such a minor optimization that I haven’t felt the need.
SliceOfDog: [bug with rejecting/denying everyone]
This’ll get fixed with escalating penalties. Around 5 in one day will be enough to game-over that night.
SliceOfDog: [having a smaller rulebook that pins]
There are many ways I could make the interface more optimal but as mentioned before I’m happy with the current level of required paper shuffling. Makes me feel like I’m working. In a good way.
erikchan002: [bugs] … Maybe a key for calling the next person in-line?
Thanks for the bug reports. I think it’s important to make the player look up to the top area every once in a while to click the booth. This is mainly why I put the button there (instead of keeping it on the desk).
Replies
#425 DustyDrake (April 24, 2013 10:11 AM)
Don’t you already list the number of people you processed in the last version you released?
Like it says something like Salary(X), I assumed X was the number of people you processed.#426 melos han-tani (April 24, 2013 10:49 AM)
Did you manage to get the windowed mode to resize using HaXe? I can’t figure it out. NME head says that I might need to implement it in the CPP code.#427 s0 (April 24, 2013 11:32 AM)
amazing game but:there were a couple of instances where, even though the issuing city on the passport didn’t match up with those in the manual, the game didn’t let me point out discrepancies and said the info was correct.
am i just missing something or is that a bug?
#428 Mirka (April 24, 2013 08:40 PM)
Quote from: dukope on April 24, 2013, 09:49:57 AM Are you saying you saw both pieces of news after detaining him?
Yes, I’m pretty sure I saw it. I played your game two times. The first one, I didn’t link him to the letter so I just denied him, got a “wrong support” message and nothing more. THe second time I linked him, detained him and in the next morning I got both the human trafficking shuts down and the news that the girls died. That was in version 0.5.07. I will try to reproduce it in the latest version.
#429 Hibbe (April 24, 2013 11:05 PM)
Bug: After denying someone, I pressed the speaker before they had left and it said “welcome to Arstotzka”Otherwise, great game! Hopefully it will be playable while listening to podcasts, seems like that could work. :)
#430 benexclaimed (April 25, 2013 07:44 AM)
I’ve seen lots of people here and elsewhere asking you to increase the desk size – I have to disagree. Please please please don’t. I absolutely love that I have to shuffle papers around on my tiny, disorganized desk to find what I’m looking for.#431 Mirka (April 25, 2013 09:25 AM)
Quote from: Hibbe on April 24, 2013, 11:05:32 PM Bug: After denying someone, I pressed the speaker before they had left and it said “welcome to Arstotzka”
Otherwise, great game! Hopefully it will be playable while listening to podcasts, seems like that could work. :)
That’s not a bug. When you press the speaker while you are with someone in the cabin, you will say some phrases like this one or “ready your papers”.
#432 Hibbe (April 25, 2013 11:45 AM)
Quote from: arkhometha on April 25, 2013, 09:25:15 AM Quote from: Hibbe on April 24, 2013, 11:05:32 PM Bug: After denying someone, I pressed the speaker before they had left and it said “welcome to Arstotzka”
Otherwise, great game! Hopefully it will be playable while listening to podcasts, seems like that could work. :)
That’s not a bug. When you press the speaker while you are with someone in the cabin, you will say some phrases like this one or “ready your papers”.
Oh yeah, you are right, it’s directed towards the crowd, not the individual, sorry.
#433 umbra (April 25, 2013 04:30 PM)
it would be nice to have some “hot” keys to do some things, in real life you have 2 hands to work with, so it is a little aquward to do it with only one hand
:beg: please :beg: :hand any key:#434 Commdor (April 25, 2013 09:31 PM)
Great game! I discovered it via a playthrough video on IGN, was hooked by the premise, and immediately tried the beta. Looking forward to buying and playing the completed version.A question/suggestion, if you have the time and patience for someone else who wants to hijack your creative process:
Will there be anything like an endless mode in the final game where you can examine and stamp documents indefinitely to your heart’s content? The narrative so far is intriguing, but the gameplay has this satisfying, addictive quality to it that the daily time restriction gets in the way of. I’d like to keep playing without interruption, see how many people I can check before I get too many citations or hit a longer time limit. Maybe have meaningless in-game rewards to aim for if I reach a certain quota, like a medal or convoluted bureaucratic title (“Senior Regional District Admission Manager, 3rd Class” for checking 50 people without citations or somesuch).
Bottom-line, the more document-stamping goodness you can stuff in there, the better.
#435 Hempuli‽ (April 26, 2013 12:48 AM)
How about an endless mode where you play day by day and the game randomly gives you different “rules” every day? This way the full variety of the game’s mechanics could be in use!#436 Bishop (April 26, 2013 01:11 AM)
The number of users in this thread who’ve signed up just to post about this game is staggering. A real accolade!#437 Zarkonnen (April 26, 2013 01:20 AM)
This is an amazing game that really falls into its own category of amazingness. It’s definitely now my go-to game for showing non-gamers that games are a thing worth caring about.
#438 April 26, 2013 01:38 AM
Quote from: benexclaimed on April 25, 2013, 07:44:20 AM I’ve seen lots of people here and elsewhere asking you to increase the desk size – I have to disagree. Please please please don’t. I absolutely love that I have to shuffle papers around on my tiny, disorganized desk to find what I’m looking for.
Yeah, don’t worry about that. I’m definitely not changing the desk (or any) size at this point. For those that want a bigger desk, play the alpha to know what a small desk is. The beta IS the big desk.
Quote from: umbra on April 25, 2013, 04:30:29 PM it would be nice to have some “hot” keys to do some things, in real life you have 2 hands to work with, so it is a little aquward to do it with only one hand
This is the only logically-backed suggestion I’ve heard for adding hotkeys. I’ll think about it.
Quote from: Hempuli‽ on April 26, 2013, 12:48:08 AM How about an endless mode where you play day by day and the game randomly gives you different “rules” every day? This way the full variety of the game’s mechanics could be in use!
Yup!
Quote from: Bishop on April 26, 2013, 01:11:40 AM The number of users in this thread who’ve signed up just to post about this game is staggering. A real accolade!
Thanks and lemme just say:
If you signed up recently to post here, please check out the other awesome games in
»THE DEVLOG FORUM «
You can start with Bishop’s own Trash TV
Replies
#439 s0 (April 26, 2013 02:40 AM)
Quote from: dukope on April 26, 2013, 01:38:58 AM Thanks and lemme just say:
If you signed up recently to post here, please check out the other awesome games in
»THE DEVLOG FORUM «
You can start with Bishop’s own Trash TV
you are a fine individual :)
#440 Quarry (April 26, 2013 02:42 AM)
This is like Delver #2!#441 tsukos (April 26, 2013 05:31 AM)
I wanted to point out that whenever you have to ask someone to provide a missing document and they produce it, all of their information is always correct. I have tested this over 15 playthroughs and it is always true so far.Congratulations on making a game so compelling that people sign up to the forum just to post in this thread.
#442 Grenator (April 26, 2013 01:54 PM)
Quote from: tsukos on April 26, 2013, 05:31:56 AM I wanted to point out that whenever you have to ask someone to provide a missing document and they produce it, all of their information is always correct. I have tested this over 15 playthroughs and it is always true so far.
Congratulations on making a game so compelling that people sign up to the forum just to post in this thread.
Yes, if there’s anything superficially wrong with the papers (like a person with different, but known, names, or whose appearance is different from the picture in the passport, but the prints match), ultimately, there is always nothing wrong with them. Red herrings would be more fun.
(signed up just to post in this thread)
#443 April 27, 2013 07:26 AM
Quote from: Grenator on April 26, 2013, 01:54:54 PM Quote from: tsukos on April 26, 2013, 05:31:56 AM I wanted to point out that whenever you have to ask someone to provide a missing document and they produce it, all of their information is always correct. I have tested this over 15 playthroughs and it is always true so far.
Yes, if there’s anything superficially wrong with the papers (like a person with different, but known, names, or whose appearance is different from the picture in the passport, but the prints match), ultimately, there is always nothing wrong with them. Red herrings would be more fun.
An interesting thing I found very early is that the more errors an entrant has, the easier it is. The beta is currently limited to at-most one error per entrant. As you guys have noticed that makes it too predictable so I’m changing it to handle this case better. Documents revealed later may have errors in the final version.
Beta 0.5.13
Just a few bug fixes.
- No new content.
- Show helpful error when trying to run without enough OpenGL.
- Fixed some issues with continuing a game in progress.
- Fixed “Invalid News0” citation message.
- Fixed crash when continuing from day 9.
- Fixed double-detain bug on scripted entrants.
- Corrected citation penalty amount text.
- Removed Jorji and made day 3 a much more casual-friendly experience.
- Just kidding. It seems the last fix worked. No more changes to day 3.
There was one major issue I wanted to fix with this build. On some people’s machines, the rendering is totally screwed up and the game eventually crashes. Turns out it was related to missing OpenGL drivers. The game now prints a useful error message in this case.
Hopefully there’s nothing majorly wrong with this build as I’m hoping to move off the beta and start the push for final release.
Endless Mode
An endless mode is something I’ve been mulling since the beginning, and it’s a common request. So now I’m committing to it.
This will be a separate mode, possibly unlocked after completing story mode. The days/entrants/rules/events will be randomly generated with some basic progression. I may or may not include the night-time money management here. Will have to test it out. This mode also might include some kind of online leaderboards/rankings/integration. Depends on the effort/payoff balance.
From Here
I’ve got the story and mechanics for the rest of the game mostly mapped out. There’s a lot of stuff I think is cool and that I’d like to show in here. But I kinda want the rest of the game to be a surprise and am thinking to avoid posting any further content here.
Not sure how I should handle this actually. Any thoughts? At the very least, I’ll respond to comments here. And I’m planning to keep a private devlog of my progress. Something I can post here after the game’s release.
Replies
#444 Stereotomy (April 27, 2013 07:48 AM)
Quote from: dukope on April 27, 2013, 07:26:06 AM An interesting thing I found very early is that the more errors an entrant has, the easier it is. The beta is currently limited to at-most one error per entrant. As you guys have noticed that makes it too predictable so I’m changing it to handle this case better. Documents revealed later may have errors in the final version.
Well there’s a bit of a subtlety there. I agree there’s no reason to put in more than one actual error, as that would definitely make it easier. The cases where there’s a problem is where there’s a potential error which then gets resolved as not actually being an error (missing document, second name, etc.). In that case there needs to also potentially be another error to check for, otherwise there’s the predictability problem.Quote from: dukope on April 27, 2013, 07:26:06 AM I’ve got the story and mechanics for the rest of the game mostly mapped out. There’s a lot of stuff I think is cool and that I’d like to show in here. But I kinda want the rest of the game to be a surprise and am thinking to avoid posting any further content here.
Not sure how I should handle this actually. Any thoughts? At the very least, I’ll respond to comments here. And I’m planning to keep a private devlog of my progress. Something I can post here after the game’s release.
Much as I hate saying it, keeping it a surprise would probably be best.
#445 Grenator (April 27, 2013 01:50 PM)
Quote from: dukope on April 27, 2013, 07:26:06 AM An interesting thing I found very early is that the more errors an entrant has, the easier it is. The beta is currently limited to at-most one error per entrant. As you guys have noticed that makes it too predictable so I’m changing it to handle this case better. Documents revealed later may have errors in the final version.
It could be approached by keeping in mind that not all ‘discrepancies’ are not the same in visibility. Wrong picture is dead obvious, but a one-letter difference in the middle of a name, or a mistake the district that issued the ID card – not so much.
#446 Armageddon (April 27, 2013 10:21 PM)
Quote from: dukope on April 26, 2013, 01:38:58 AM Quote from: benexclaimed on April 25, 2013, 07:44:20 AM I’ve seen lots of people here and elsewhere asking you to increase the desk size – I have to disagree. Please please please don’t. I absolutely love that I have to shuffle papers around on my tiny, disorganized desk to find what I’m looking for.
Yeah, don’t worry about that. I’m definitely not changing the desk (or any) size at this point. For those that want a bigger desk, play the alpha to know what a small desk is. The beta IS the big desk. I don’t think they mean the right side, I think they mean the concrete slab thing in front of the window view as it starts to get very cluttered if you have just two warnings.
#447 Squeegy (April 28, 2013 01:40 AM)
I agree that one mistake per person is far too predictable. Some of the mistakes, especially, aren’t fatal, so it makes things sort of “oh, phew, that person had a mistake, I’m good.” I recommend upping the limit to two or three, but making it more and more unlikely; that way, it’s unpredictable, and you might still end up with only one mistake. The important thing is that the feeling of “I’m good, no worries” is gone; one of the funnest parts of the game is the anxiety about giving that passport back – did you miss something? You have to balance it with how badly you need the cash from more immigrants.I also recommend the same escalation as in story mode in endless. Perhaps it could be randomized, though, with a variety of scenarios, terrorist attacks, and independent scripted events put in to keep it interesting. A healthy database of those would be great.
#448 Johnyliltoe (April 28, 2013 11:04 AM)
Hey,I do Let’s Play videos on YouTube and I was hoping to find out the video policy for Papers, Please.
Are we OK to use footage of Papers, Please to add commentary and showcase gameplay? If so, is monetization of such videos OK?
I’d love to show this game off and hopefully drive a bit of traffic to the greenlight page.
#449 StephenM3 (April 28, 2013 11:41 AM)
I love, love love this game so far. It’s especially clever how you implemented a difficulty curve with increasingly complicated international relations. (The first game of yours that I played was Republia Times. It’s neat how many ways you’ve tied this to that thematically.)One (longish) comment/suggestion, after playing through the beta a few times:
I like how, becoming familiar with the game and the setting, I can stamp without having to double-check. If their paperwork is expired, I can Investigate to be sure, or I can stamp DENY to be fast. Since I didn’t “ask the game” about the error, there’s no small amount of tension, waiting to see if a citation pops up. The time pressure is an important part of this game, and it feels like I’m being rewarded for getting better at the job.
In a similar vein, I’d like to have access to the Detain button if I’m already confident in the decision. It’d be cool to even be able to press it when I’m wrong, resulting in a penalty (as well as a lot of lost time)! Right now, it feels odd to be “checking the rules” for a forged document, as if it’s my first day on the job, even if I’ve memorized the seals and cities. Furthermore, this takes a significant amount of time, which is at a premium if I’m to earn enough money to feed my family. On my latest playthrough, I stopped asking “is this person worth jailing, or just turning away?” because the latter is so much faster.
It makes sense that a more extreme response is more of a hassle. (A real guard might be tempted to merely send someone away to save time, or as an act of mercy.) But it feels odd to have that delay tied to the investigation mechanic, instead of the detain action itself – say, waiting for the guards to apprehend the traveler.The same goes for denying people who are missing their passport. Sure, you could go through the trouble of asking them for it (using the investigation mode to ask them a question), or you could be a dick and just hand them a denial slip. I’d like that option!
I guess basically, using the Invetigation Mode as a gating mechanism seems… false, somehow. You should be able to scan people for no reason at all, or make them give you fingerprints just because you don’t like them, even if it gets you in trouble with your bosses.I realize that shuffling through papers is an important part of PP’s design, and I really do like it! But I feel like shuffling through papers is for looking at the information. If I’ve memorized the rulebook, why do I need to consult it to confirm that a seal is fake? If it’s a bureaucracy thing, it doesn’t really feel like it.
Investigation Mode feels like I’m asking a question, I guess. Holding up the rulebook and saying “hey, look here, your issuing city is invalid. Anything to say?” Or, highlighting dates or fingerprints as a way to see if they match, in case you don’t trust your eyes. When I see a gun taped to someone’s leg, I want to hit the “detain” button in response, not draw a line between the gun and the entry in the rulebook that says “no guns”… unless I plan to calmly ask them about it, or double-check that guns aren’t allowed.EDIT: I’ve edited this post half-a-billion times, trying to make it less long-winded and more persuasive. I should probably stop now.
#450 Grenator (April 28, 2013 04:27 PM)
Quote from: StephenM3 on April 28, 2013, 11:41:55 AM On my latest playthrough, I stopped asking “is this person worth jailing, or just turning away?” because the latter is so much faster.
There should be an incentive to jail people. Some negative reinforcement, like a quota on detentions. ‘If you don’t make X arrests, you get a penalty’.
EDIT: I personally always detain people when I can. Because I can. :) I usually have no problem dealing with 10-11 applicants each day to cover my expenses, so making more money, by just turning people away and not jailing them is not really necessary (hopefully, there will be reasons to have savings in later versions).
#451 StephenM3 (April 28, 2013 06:12 PM)
Am I wrong, or does the clock literally speed up to prevent you from processing enough travelers to cover your expenses on Day 1?#452 LordRedLion9 (April 28, 2013 09:40 PM)
First of all, I love this demo so far, I played it 3 times through in one day, the art style is great and the concept is remarkably original.I just wanted to notify you on a few problems I found with it though, considering it is a beta still.
Firstly, on one of my playthrough’s, I was just repeatedly denying everyone, and found that I was doing better this way than playing the game properly. The amount of people I went through far exceeded the penalties I received, and I ended up making over a hundred dollars a day. Even-though its no fun to do, its still game-breaking and perhaps this is somthing that needs to be worked on. Perhaps the penalties will increase the more you get?
Secondly, there doesn’t seem to be any penalty for just arresting everyone with invalid papers, instead of just denials. Im thinking this is just a beta thing.
Another thing, when it came to busting the dude with his “harmless medicine” concealed on him, I had remembered who he was, and my second time, I just denied him instantly, without searching him. but the dialogue I got with him suggested that I had searched him, saying that “You were lucky to escape arrest”. Is my character a psychic? :shocked:
Other than those small things, I really look forward to your games release. May it be a success! Glory to Arstotzka! :beer!:
#453 LordRedLion9 (April 28, 2013 09:42 PM)
Quote from: StephenM3 on April 28, 2013, 06:12:39 PM Am I wrong, or does the clock literally speed up to prevent you from processing enough travelers to cover your expenses on Day 1?
Crap, I think it does. I noticed too. But Im still to fast with my denials! :evil:
#454 gimymblert (April 29, 2013 08:46 AM)
#455 tequibo (April 29, 2013 10:55 AM)
I think I know which game is going to be in next greenlit set.
#456 felathar (April 29, 2013 12:03 PM)
Hi people! Anyone can tell me how to contact Lucas Pope by email? I’m an independant translator and I would love to translate his game to spanish for free. I found a lot of friends that would love to play and buy the game but they don’t talk english so… what the hell I can translate it :D#457 DrDerekDoctors (April 29, 2013 12:57 PM)
Haha! This is wonderful! :)#458 rafex987 (April 29, 2013 01:07 PM)
First of all, amazing game.
I’d like to suggest something to make the game more realistic as the security grows as the game progresses.
I feel like anyone can just make up the passport number and you can’t know it. I suggest some sort of number database. Maybe a weekly or monthly default initial numbers/letters from the passport numbers, only availabe to you and that ministry of course. But you said you’re focusing on the art for now, but it’s just a suggestion.
Great game, looking forward to it!#459 emacs (April 29, 2013 02:06 PM)
Man, this is really blowing up. Congrats dukope!#460 muki (April 29, 2013 05:59 PM)
nice to see this getting the attention it deserves! :grin:#461 gene123 (April 29, 2013 07:54 PM)
This is a great game, very atmospheric and immersive. I have a few suggestions to make it even more immersive:Cosmetic/Balance changes:
- The game atmosphere shared both Communist and Fascist elements (e.g. the eagle is a Fascist/Nazi rather than Communist symbol, while the red color is indeed Communist). I think it’s great to be purposefully ambiguous, so instead of introducing the country as “communist country of Arstotzka”, try for a title such as “Workers’ Republic of Arstotzka”. This is nice and ambigous as historically both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union considered themselves “Workers’ States”, and also sounds like something the country would officially title itself as, adding to the immersion.
- For a similar reason, try to write newspaper headlines in the tone that would be expected from an actual publication in the country (heavily censored press forced to write patriotic and hyperbolic titles). For example, instead of “Jobs few, becoming fewer”, try something like “Loyal Arstotzkans Suffer”, followed by blaming the immigrants for taking the jobs, or “Perfidious Saboteurs Attack Grestin Checkpoint” after the terrorist attacks. And change newspaper lines like “can they keep us safe?” to e.g. “will protect the Motherland” - a communist/fascist newspaper would never be allowed to question those in power.
- In your screenshot, the “class 8” apartment looks too nice. Make it look like the classic Eastern Europe communal apartment - dirty, occasional broken windows, empty alcohol bottles scattered around, etc.
- Communist/Fascist states had militarized borders patrolled by soliders rather than police. Repaint the soliders from blue (traditional police color) to green/grey/brown (traditional military colors). Also consider painting the rifle pixels black/brown in traditional rifle barrel/stock colors. If anyone, the protagonist himself could be painted blue, as (unlike the guards) he is a government civil servant rather than soldier.
- Some actions need to have their rewards rebalanced - as previous readers said, currently its much easier to turn people away as opposed to arresting them, and the reward is the same. I think you should get an increased reward for a successful arrest as compared to just accepting/denying a person.
- Cynical as it may be, every dead family member should reduce food cost by $4 for subsequent days, since there is one mouth less to feed (including yourself), or by $5 if yourself is not included. Rent/heat are fixed costs and thus would remain unchanged.
And some changes which would involve more work, but still could improve the game IMO:
- You should have more freedom to make choices, even wrong ones. I think “detain” button should always be available, but wrongfully detaining a peson would incur a severe penalty (e.g. double the one of wrongfully accepting/denying someone), so you’d still be motivated to interrogate someone to make sure you have grounds to detain them. But obvious cases such as smuggled guns/drugs on scans, should be grounds for detaining without first having to interrogate. Same applies for search/fingerprint - you should always have a choice of forcing traveller to submit, but abusing that would get you a citation. This would make the game more immersive by giving you freedom to make actions and face consequences, rather then feeling like being led by the game.
- While I understand your desire to introduce guns/tranquilizers into the game, I agree with earlier feedback that this would seem out of place (an immigration officer wouldn’t personally shoot offenders, but leave this to the border guards. I think it should be replaced by an alarm button which turns on lights/sirens and alerts the guards). The alarm could still require grabbing and turning the key (think of nuclear launch-like button requiring a key to unlock), keeping the urgency idea. Once alarm is sounded the intruder could either get scared and drop down (guards would then arrest him), or keep running (but alerted guards would then fire immediately, denying him change to approach and attack them). You would get a bonus for timely alarm. Conversely, using the alarm without a valid reason would get you a penalty + terminate day early, making you lose all remaining income
- It would be interesting for one or several days to be forced night shifts. You would have moving searchlights patrol the border strip, and would have to pay attention to runners trying to get across which will be much harder to detect than during daylights.
- Perhaps occasionally have Artstostakn Workers’ Party members brandishing their Party Card insisting on special treatment such as urgent acceptance or letting them through without a passport or with smuggled stuff. Both accepting and denying could get your lowly functionary protagonist in trouble, leading to interesting moral choices.
- If you go ahead and introduce different style passports for each state, it could be interesting to (on later levels) to see a mismatched passport style which means a forgery. Of course, your rulebook should then include reference passport styles for each state.
- Some travellers could get a nervous breakdown and start yelling/banging on window/refusing to comply/etc, if you do something like deny then entry, force them to face a search, fingerprint, take too long, point out a discrepancy, etc. You’d then have moral choice of either detaining them immediately, or trying to negotiate with them to calm them down. Perhaps negotiation could sometimes earn you an achievement.
- For added visual effects, consider adding changing weather. Nothing adds to the miserable atmosphere like a pouring rain under which all the waiting people have to stand
- On later levels, you could get instructions to inspect traveller’s previous passport stamps (allowing you to flip passport pages similar to how you flip rulebook pages). Game rules may order you to deny entry to those previously turned away by Arstotska, or who have previously entered a different state (e.g. “Turn away all Republians as well as any person who has a Republian entry stamp in their passport)
- How come no travellers have any luggage? Some could have random luggage, and on later mission you’d have to search it.
#462 Stereotomy (April 29, 2013 10:24 PM)
A lot of ideas that have been posted I’ve thought were pretty bad, but pretty much all of the stuff in the above post by gene123, especially the cosmetic suggestions, is spot on.On the point about more freedom to choose when to use functions, it’d be nice to have to work out the ‘use scanner to determine gender’ thing yourself, rather than the game telling you.
#463 qqqbbb (April 30, 2013 07:14 AM)
Who would have thought a game about stamping papers can be so addictive…I like everything about the game except sniping people, it really looks out of place. How about making it optional? As gene123 wrote an alarm button seems like a good alternative. The quicker you press it the less chances runner has to get away or hurt guards.
Here is some more ideas:
Your family will get hungry and ill if you dont make enough money but somehow you are invulnerable. Why not make hunger and illness affect player? If you are ill you may start coughing (which waists precious time) or your eyesight may get worse. If you have not eaten in days you may just faint.
What about bribes and threats? That would be quite immersive if someone threatens you or your family and you have to figure out if they are bluffing or not. And if some thug threatens you with a weapon you have to quickly pull down shutters to protect yourself.
People want hotkeys for documents… How about this: if papers are stacked you can rightclick drag all of them (like you do in RL). This would make returning papers to immigrant workers much easier.And some minor thing:
In slavic languages names are gender dependent. Male last names end with ski, ov, ev, in. Female last names end with ska, ova, eva, ina. So Maria Kozlovski is westernized version which does not make sense to native speakers.#464 Mirka (April 30, 2013 10:42 AM)
I’m sorry, Lucas Pope, but I was unable to reproduce the bug of detaining the pimp and getting the girls killed. I saw it in version 0.5.07 and tried to reproduce everything I did in version 0.5.11, but no luck. I did however, get something strange in the news and I will post it later.Also, as someone offered earlier, I would like to offer my translation services, for free.
#465 Gila (April 30, 2013 01:00 PM)
This game is great, no doubt about that. I’ve played through the beta three times now, and there’s a suggestion I figured couldn’t hurt. Since playing the latest beta version I really wish you would implement a difficulty setting in the game. It could be something as simple as making the days shorter in real time as the difficulty increases. Actually, that would be pretty awesome.The game wasn’t exactly hard the first time I played (ended up without heat on two separate days I think), but now it’s getting just a little monotonous. The only real reason for this is the amount of applicants I ended up processing through the days. The days that are artificially cut short by terrorist attacks are kind of a nice exception to this. My record so far is 19 people processed on day 3. I was never really short for cash during this playthrough and at the end of day 8 I had around $90 saved up. This kind of takes the challenge out of the game and reduces the replayability value at least for me. Learning new things to look out for always takes a bit, but once you’ve learned them, the difficulty of doing that thing is just so much less it makes it almost too easy. Making it possible to shorten the days would make things challenging again and at least for me challenging is fun.
#466 Angrytemplar (May 01, 2013 01:53 AM)
Cool game so far, completed all of the current beta, however, I encountered a pretty severe bug. For some reason medicine didn’t work, and it killed off everyone in my family except my wife, despite having purchased it every single time. Was I also meant to keep them warm and fed or something?#467 Flotilla (May 01, 2013 09:52 AM)
Congrats on getting Greenlit!#468 Monolith (May 01, 2013 10:15 AM)
First off, hi everyone! Newbie here. I absolutely loved playing the beta, had me fascinated for hours! Splendid work! The atmosphere is brilliant and flawlessly exectuted, right down the texture of the paper. As someone who lived in a place similar to this fictional Communist State, it made me feel… well, I dunno if “nostalgic” is the right word for it, but it certainly helps the immersion, that you got all that right. Reminds me of when I used to leaf through my parents’ old documents.Right then, with that out of the way, I have a few things to add to the ideas floating around. In no particular order:
- Weather effects: I’m 100% behind this (assuming it’s feasible for the dev, and not a huge pain). Seeing the queue of miserable people lined up outside the checkpoint was a vital part of the oppressive feeling of the game, as a whole (which, incidentally, is why I support your “no speaker hotkey” policy, even though it would make things easier). But you’d have to make sure to really nail the sound design. I can’t think of a better way to set the mood of a crappy, rainy afternoon than the sound of rain as it hits the cheap aluminum roof of the booth. Maybe make a transition when the character first moves across the screen to his station, from an outdoor rain sound to an indoor one.
- The gun debate: Seems to me that this is something a lot of the fans don’t like (although I might be wrong, seeing as I didn’t go through the whole thread. But I really like that idea. Sure, it might remove the feeling of helplessness and powerlessness one feels when some desperate terrorist makes a break for the fence, but, I think it would be a critial factor in establishing your station in the game world. For one, it’s an immersion thing. Part of the appeal of the game is feeling like this is your actual job (I made sure to wear the unimpressed, joyless face of a government clerk while I played for the full effect :wink: ) and it’s vital to remember that your avatar is living in a heavily militarized dictatorship, so it should stand to reason that all boarder staff be armed. Further, it helps to establish the power-dynamic of the game. You are helpless in some ways, but you’re not the bottom of the food chain. You may be struggling, but you’re still better off than the sorry wretches filing past your window. Having a gun is an ever-present reminder of why that is. They comply because they’re afraid of you and what you represent. To them (most of them, at any rate) you are an insufferable, pedantic bureaucrat, squinting and hemming and hawing over their paperwork, and barking orders at them. By all rights, they should want to reach into the booth and throttle you, but they don’t. Maybe instead of a rifle, it should just be a Makarov handgun in a drawer, a simple 26 ounces of power and fear that separate you from them. It might also add to the challenge of the game, having to remain alert, and to not get hypnotized by the constant barrage of paperwork (and add another reason to look up from the desk). Maybe make it so there’s no penalty for failing to stop a runner (the other guards will get him if you don’t) but include a bonus for bagging a desperate man making a break for the boarder. But I also like the idea of remaining alert to ensure your immediate safety, and keeping an eye on whoever you’re examining in case they’re a desperate renegade.
- fingerprint/detainment being a constantly available option: Sounds interesting. Would help the procedural gameplay, but it also might be a little overwhelming for new players. I say give it a shot. Maybe make it optional.
- A new suggestion: This one is a little tentative (as it makes me a little uncomfortable even to bring it up, but hey we already explored the wonderful, charming world of human trafficking in the beta). Let me preface this by saying that the “search” mechanic is a brilliant idea, really evoking the distasteful nature of your “job”. So, what if the ramifications of such a gross invasion of privacy came into play in the form of an opportunity to earn extra bribe-money? Say for instance, on a certain day a sleezy-looking individual approaches your booth offering to pay you in exchange for the photographs you took, creating another morals vs. pragmatism decision for the player to make? Like I said, it might be taking things a little too far (in terms of both decency and subtle nature of the game), and if that’s the case, I apologize, but it’s something to consider as a one-off occurrence.
- I also like the idea of making the political ideology and system ambiguous. Might be Communist. Might be fascist. Might even be a corporate autocracy. Who cares? Probably not at all like what it was on paper, and likely too mired in self-interest and internal backstabbing to be any recognizable political system. “Workers’ Republic of Arstotzka”. I like it
[TL;DR: Weather effects: yes please, Gun: yes please, persistent tools: I ‘unno, maybe. Consider adding a one-off immigrant who wants to buy your “dirty” photos.]
[Edit: Hell Yeah! Greenlit! And now we drink, Comrades! Glory to Arstotzka!]
#469 melos han-tani (May 01, 2013 10:43 AM)
WOAH greenlight.nice man.
#470 Belimoth (May 01, 2013 10:57 AM)
:beer!:#471 melos han-tani (May 01, 2013 11:19 AM)
AND THE TIGSOURCE GREENLIGHT VICTORIES CONTINUE.#472 gimymblert (May 01, 2013 11:23 AM)
:coffee: :toast right: let’s party!#473 Panurge (May 01, 2013 11:50 AM)
Great news! Can’t wait for the full game to be released.:beer!:
#474 Eigen (May 01, 2013 11:55 AM)
HOLY SHIT, LUCAS! YOU MAD IT! :my word!:#475 Stereotomy (May 01, 2013 12:29 PM)
:beer!:#476 JohnnyG (May 01, 2013 01:22 PM)
Quote from: gene123 on April 29, 2013, 07:54:36 PM This is a great game, very atmospheric and immersive. I have a few suggestions to make it even more immersive:
Cosmetic/Balance changes:
- The game atmosphere shared both Communist and Fascist elements (e.g. the eagle is a Fascist/Nazi rather than Communist symbol, while the red color is indeed Communist). I think it’s great to be purposefully ambiguous, so instead of introducing the country as “communist country of Arstotzka”, try for a title such as “Workers’ Republic of Arstotzka”. This is nice and ambigous as historically both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union considered themselves “Workers’ States”, and also sounds like something the country would officially title itself as, adding to the immersion.
You’ve never seen the Albanian flag then?!?!?
The game is clearly set in a cold war setting (1982) in a fictional Eastern block country. Of course it is communist. I just wanted to knock this idea of introducing fascism into the game on the head as it is certainly NOT the correct timescale or setting.
#477 GepardenK (May 01, 2013 02:10 PM)
Noticed this game through Totalbiscut and I just have to say that it is fantastic! Such a well executed idea. You have no idea how much I love the stress and the paper shuffling :)One thing I feel is a slightly missed opportunity in the current beta is the family management at the end of each day. It is not quite up to the immersive standard of the paper shuffling. I also noticed a few people talking about being confused about if they had any power over their child getting sick or not, so it may not be clear enough in that regard.
What I propose is that buying food and heat etc is separate from the payment and rent calculation, and not in any way automatic. The simple change that the players themselves must buy food and other goods from a dedicated menu using their hard earned money will add a sufficient amount of worrying I think in this particular mode of the game. I know you can currently change what you want to spend money on, but I feel the current method is too simple and easy to ignore, you dont get that “using my money here” and “managing whats important” feeling. I believe this can be fixed with a simple store menu were you must choose to spend (or not spend) money
The second, more advanced, idea I had was that the player could get into debt if he couldn’t pay rent and other automatic expenses. Maybe he has to take a loan (with a cruel down payment plan) or get kicked out of his current home. The specifics are up to debate but the general idea is that you can get into this slippery slope were your existence get darker and more desperate as you continue to get into monetary trouble. Maybe tie a simple emergent story to it with people knocking on your door demanding money if you are in trouble and so on. Just seeing that minus sign in front of your balance and an extra downpayment option to spend money on in the store should really get people stressed.
I know gamedesign is hard work and that small ideas can quickly add up. I also know you have your own vision for this project. I just wanted to point out that this family management part can be a really nice opportunity for some overall “persistent” drama and emergent storytelling while still keeping the mode itself simple and fast (after all, the paper shuffling is the main game)
Anyways, thanks for a great experience and congratulations on the greenlight!
#478 Mirka (May 01, 2013 04:05 PM)
Congratulations, Lucas Pope, for being greenlit! You deserve it!Please don’t make it a Steam Exclusive.
Glory to Arstotzka!#479 reemr (May 01, 2013 04:45 PM)
First of all I have to say that I really like Papers, please & congrats on getting greenlit. One of a kind! There is however something that I am hoping that you will change. Right now there’s some scripted events that happen in the campaign and the characters in those events always have the same name (and face I think). Would it be possible to randomize that too? It would make it a lot harder when you’ve got a new name to remember each time an event pops up. If it’s the same old name it will be easy to remember & spot.#480 Squeegy (May 01, 2013 05:43 PM)
Huzzah for being greenlit! I tried out the “accept everyone except obviously wrong passports”:
Still ended the game with $255.
I think it’d be cool also if how lax you are in previous days affected how many people show up the next day with discrepancies or forged documents.
#481 pluckyporcupine (May 02, 2013 03:06 AM)
Congrats on getting Greenlit man!#482 Hipshot (May 02, 2013 03:11 AM)
Congratulations! Another lit tig game.